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The official Navy site provides information and photos free for Internet use. All ships or classes of ships should be documented. David.Monniaux 19:22, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The French Navy does not use prefixes for its ships (like the Royal Navy does, "HMS Kent" for instance). However, since it makes it easier to understand the nationality of ships, I suggest we put the prefix FS ("French Ship"), which is already widely used informally internationally.
Articles (le, la, les) are not part of the name of the ship. "French submarine Triomphant", "Triomphant type" (not "Le Triomphant type"; yes, I know that lots of people write it like that, including the DCN itself (it probably gave up educating people), but it's not less wrong. What would you say of French people systematically saying "USS The Forrestal" ?).
Caution, in some cases, what smight look like an article can be a part of the part (La Motte-Picquet). Here, the La is not an article. In doubt, ask me...
Just because it doesn't translate well to English doesn't mean it's not used. L'anglais translates literally as "the english (language)". That's just the way the French language works.--
24.77.35.110 8 July 2005 01:21 (UTC)
As noted earlier, the French did not have a designation like HMS. For the 17th and 18th century, when French and English ships frequently carried the same name, it is helpful to keep the article, even if they are not officially part of the name of the ship. The short article is more efficient than having to repeatedly write "the French ship of the line Terrible," which gets tiresome quickly. Check out William Cormack's authoritative work Revolution and Political Conflict in the French Navy 1789-1794 published by Cambridge University Press. -- Ken Johnson 15:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
The problem is, as far as I have been able to find, there are no set standard for translating ship names from French to English. Even if a modern standard were set, it might not make sense to apply it to the 18th century. This is a long standing problem for what I can see. For example, William James, in his Naval History of Great Britain, did not write "HMS" or "Le/La" but instead used italics to differentiate. All ships names were bolded, while French ship names were italicized. -- Ken Johnson 17:19, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
A friend of mine has a sister-in-law who is a professional translator. She said that in both French and Spanish, the proper usage is to use the original name (i.e. L'Atalante) throughout. If a designator such at “HMS” or “USS” does not appear before the name, you may use something along the lines of “the vessel, L'Atalante. .…) initially, and thereafter just the name L'Atalante without the English article (i.e. “The L'Atalante….” would be incorrect.) She is very good in both Spanish and French, so unless somebody from l’Academie challenges you, you are probably on strong ground. -- Ken Johnson 04:17, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
In French, the nobility particle is "de" ("duc de Guise"), with a small "d". Now, nobility particles are not said when just refering to a person's name (without the first name or the title): "Richelieu", but "Cardinal de Richelieu".
Caution, some names might have a "De" inside which in not' a particle, but part of the name. Here the "D" is in capital.
Now, there are exceptions too: "De Gaulle" is not a particle (proof ? easy: "General de Gaulle"; "Charles de Gaulle"; "de Gaulle". Noone will ever say just "Gaulle" (cf "Richelieu")). For "de Gaulle", it is mainly the usage which has more or less enforced the "de" over the "De", which would be more correct (and also more republican...).
Now, for some cases, the particle will show in the ship's name with a capital (De Grasse, D'Entrecasteaux); in some other cases, the small caracter is tolerated in the middle of the name (De Gaulle, but Charles de Gaulle). There again, if you want my idea about the subject, you can ask me.
NOTA :
Well... It's a bit more complicate. The usage today maintains the particle before a monosyllabic name (de Grasse, de Gaulle), or before a name begining by a vowell (d'Artagnan). Before any other name the particle must vanish (Villepin and not de Villepin, etc.)
Why is it so ? Long time ago, the particle wasn't prononced before any name (the writer Agrippa d'Aubigné called himself "Aubigné", and not "d'Aubigné" as today). Then step by step (probably because of its prestige and of the bad taste of much bourgeois gentilshommes) the particle appeared more and more, for exemple before vowells (like "d'Alembert" in the 18th century). After the Revolution (restauration of the monarchy) it was commonly used, and the not noble Honoré de Balzac was signing only "de Balzac", to emphasize his fake nobility.
This evolution makes it a bit complicate, and some people today still say "de Villepin" instead of "Villepin", but educated people will tell you the correct way.
(Etymologically not, as it may come from the flemish "De Waulle", the wall, "De" signifying simply "the" in Flemish. But this "De" it has been assimilated very early with a particle : the first historical de Gaulle, Richard de Gaulle, date back to 1210 and he was noble. In the 17th century, Charle's ancestors were a good exemple of "noblesse de robe" : Antoine and Jean-Baptiste de Gaulle were magistrates. Charles de Gaulle, as any of his ancestors, is never written with a capital "D" (the only exception is when you write de Gaulle after "de", to avoid visual repetition, for ex. : "La politique de De Gaulle").
Aaargh...! One last time and I stop : De Gaulle is etymologically not a noble name, yet it has been assimilated early with one (as the family acquired a noble status), and therefore it behave exactly as any other French monosyllabic noble name. It's because of this monosyllabic quality that its particle is elided when the name is pronounced alone - just as "de Grasse", "de Lattre" or "de Thou", all ancient, pure and venerable French noble names, but monosyllabic, so pronounced and written with their "de" when alone (the two only exceptions with that kind of names being "Sade" and "Retz", wich in a similar case are never said with their particle).
So the fact that you use differently the particle before "Richelieu" and "de Gaulle" is due to the length of noble name considered, and has nothing to do with being noble or not.
Click here if you want to know everything about usage of French noble particles (in French)
Now for something simple ! :)
I sugest that we add the dates of commissioning and de-commissioning (or sinking, disapearing, whatever...) after the name of ships which are no longer in service in the French Navy, much like it's done for the Royal Navy already on Wikipedia.
Thusly, FS Surcouf (1927-1942) refers to the Second World War submarine, and FS Surcouf refers to the ontemporary stealth frigate.
I hope this helps avoid all the "French Cruiser Jeanne d'Arc", "French_Richelieu_(1940)", and other cahotic looking things I have seen in the past :) If someone has suggestions, remarks, or anything, tell me ! Cheers and happy editing ! Rama 06:35, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
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There are already naming conventions for ships. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ships). If you think they are wrong, or you think French ships need to be named in a different way, please raise the issue and discuss on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (ships). Gdr 11:30, 2005 Mar 17 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships was a fine place, but the naming conventions have their own page. Gdr 13:23, 2005 Mar 17 (UTC)
Can some sone who has some level fluency in French beyond student say what this type of vessel is? It looks like it means "Corvette", but I don't really know. -- Mtnerd 05:08, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
According to Dictionnaire de Marine a voiles by Bonnefoux and Paris, Aviso is translated as "advice boat" or as Rama says in his article "dispatch boat". There are also a "corvette-aviso" which is translated as a "light sloop of war, packet sloop of war". In addition, "brig-aviso" is a "light brig, packet". -- Ken Johnson 15:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
A packet is a passenger boat usually carrying mail and cargo. --
Ken Johnson
01:13, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Isn't the French Navy now larger (in all factors that determine a navy's size) than the Royal Navy?
The RN has some very advanced ships, such as the type 45 destroyers, which are slightly ahead of the french navy. The french do employ more people and the Charles De Gualle (I hope thats how you spell it) is way beyond the curent british carriers. The french navy has a lower gross tonnage (not quite sure if that shows anyting) than the RN and the RN has way more ships.
Same question as above: in French the article ("le"/"la") is not part of the word. I don't know why so many people tend to have the impression that it is and put "le" and "la" everywhere (perhaps some way the French is taught to foreigners ?); there is no more reason for stating "La Marine Nationale" than there would be to call the article "The French Navy" (and for the record, French is my mother tongue). Rama 16:31, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
It seems odd that this factoid is mentioned. Presumably this is mentioned to give a handle to the reader as to the capability of the French Navy vis-a-vis other navies. I cannot see any other valid reason for stating personnel in such a manner (i.e. listing this fact up front in the article, as opposed to a mere listing of the fact as to personnel establishment later on in the article with lesser relevance).
So the assumption is that personnel is a key indicator as to the capability of the French Navy - that is, it is assumed that the additions of the collective of editors who have been to these pages before me have thought that personnel is a key indicator. I disagree....navies are surely to be measured as to capability in other terms. There is no accurate measure of capability - but other factors such as a balance of forces (see blue water navy), the total gross tonnage (which is listed in this article) and the firepower available are valid indicators.
It has often been said that navies and air forces man equipment whilst armies equip men. Therefore to list the number of available infantrymen in an army is an indicator of effectiveness, when it comes to navies, the personnel establishment number tells me, as a reader, nothing.
Other factors come into play - e.g. how old is the equipment of this navy that must be manned - first generation aircraft carriers, for example, were grossly overmanned compared to modern designs, due to advanced in automation technologies. Some countries include a large number of ancillary staff on their establishment whilst other navies would not - for example, cooks at Royal Australian Navy bases are civilian contractors, whilst (I imagine) that French Navy shore establishment cooks are service personnel. The most glaring "boost" to the French Navy numbers that additionally gives doubt to the relevance of this measure of capability is the fact that the fire brigade of Marseilles are included on the French Navy establishment.
I vote for the removal of this misleading factoid of the French Navy - or else it needs quantifying.
The bottom line is that to quote personnel figures leads to images of over-manning, or a massaging of the figures to give a grandoise overall look of the size of the French Navy - albeit acheived at the expense of including bottle-washers, blanket stackers and (what would elsewhere in the world be) civilian fire-fighting personnel.
I rest my case. Anon.
This conversation is very old. You'll have to get some more people in here to discuss this before you want to remove that statement. On the statement itself, however, it is worthy because it describes one facet of why the French Navy is important, though not necessarily the "best" or "better than this or that." UberCryxic 14:05, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Well actually, that does not appear to be the implication at all. It's just stating a significant fact about the French Navy. UberCryxic 16:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Since France still has consciption ( correct me if I am wrong ) that would explain why it would be potentially larger ( in terms of personel ) than, say the RN. You have to put the conscripts somewhere. How useful those extra bodies are after, say, twelve months of training is open to debate but not relevent to a wiki page. 145.253.108.22 09:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
This is a useful article, but it lacks information on naval bases. Could someone add some please? George955 18:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Isn't the NHS the largest employer in europe? Having 1.33 million employees - that makes it the 5th largest in the world, I think. This article has the required information on the number of staff it has, and I'm 99.99% sure that the French Navy has fewer employees. 86.163.117.233 ( talk) 16:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Just a brief question Article great! Wondering if more attention the reasons where any French Naval vessals salvaged. For the scutting by Vichy Frfance of Frfench Naval units France and NorthAfrica? Merci' Thanks! (datedEve.Sn.Sept13th200921stcentByDr.Edson Andre' Johnson D.D,ULC"X") ANDREMOI ( talk) 02:45, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Is it true they sank more ships belonging to Greenpeace than the Germans?-- Streona ( talk) 09:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
OK so if I name all the Greenpeace ships sunk - The Rainbow Warrior, then you can name all the German ships - go...-- 206.165.217.125 ( talk) 15:48, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Really its aserious question - I know the Vichy forces sank a couple of torpedo boats belonging to the Thais in a skirmish at the same time (but separate to) the Second World War, but did what other ships did the French sink in the whole of the 20th century (apart from their own) ? ~Streona —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.140.16.124 ( talk) 15:54, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I stand corrected although I don't know where you learned that the Vichy Navy sank the Rainbow Warrior - becasue it was not from me. The minelaying submarine, Rubis did sink German shipping with its mines, but also 7 Norwegian ships, which were on the same side, a Finnish ship (although I do not think France was ever actually at war with Finland) and a French tug. Now I understand Rama, that you are a Senior Editor and therefore familiar with the injunction against posting abusive terms. I have genuinely sought to resolve an an argument concerning the French Navy, which was not originally my assertion and I get this kind of abuse, it seems from people who imagine that I am an American. -- Streona ( talk) 15:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC) Streona 15:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC) PS What about the First World War? Just -as you say- for my information.-- Streona ( talk) 15:30, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
1. I did, because somebody asked me, because they thought I might know but I know more about the Royal Navy than the French and I thought they had. I don't know why I am having to explain this any more than I expected a torrent of as yet unexplained abuse. 2.There is very little info on operations in WW1 apart from the Dardanelles. Were there any other operations? 3. Most wikipedia contributors probably are "smartasses" because its better than being a "dumbass" isn't it?-- Streona ( talk) 18:00, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
don't know how to put a picture of the mentioned item. I'll describe it, the best I can.
is rounded made out of coper; weights about 2 pounds; 3 inches diameter; 1/4 of un inch wide. In the back says: Escorteur d'Escadra and DUPETIT THOUARS. On front has a a coat of arms and behind crossed by two "roman" hatches? and inside the coat of arms above left and below right two iron coats. Also below the left iron coat there is two swords (sarracene,[arab} kind) crossed each other.and top of the right iron coat, there is same two arab swords crossing each other. On top and bottom of the arab swords there is like a bunch of straws. I read on this famous DUPETIT. ship and I don't Konw how this item ended in San Diego California. I found it in a swapmeet(this is a place, where you can find antiques, furniture,...is an open market)! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vascodeama ( talk • contribs) 22:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Why is there no section on the French Navy's role in WW1? They took part in the Dardanelles campaign at least, and probably others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FOARP ( talk • contribs) 20:01, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I have restored the "In Popular Culture" section that had been deleted as 'trivia'. The myth that "A'leau, C'est l'heure" (which, in English, sounds like "Hello Sailor") is "the motto of the French Navy" is so well established in the UK that I believe it warrants a paragraph in the article, if only to disabuse the notion that this IS the genuine motto. Anyone googling the punning phrase is therefore likely to encounter this Wikipedia article first, and thus discover that the notion is a fallacy. I have added a few references indicating the widespread UK knowledge of the joke. Butcherscross ( talk) 01:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Source article is unreferenced but could be a good point of expansion for the bare Uniforms section. Source article is likely not notable enough for a standalone article, definitely not without
WP:TNT first.
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10:53, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I heard that the song Les gars de la Marine is an unofficial anthem for the Navy. -- Error ( talk) 01:13, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
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The use of « and » smells of showmanship, ie. someone wants to show to the world that he/she/it knows how the French language works. In an English text, it's entirely inappropriate. 217.248.51.59 ( talk) 05:46, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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The current History section is too long for this article: the topic is well covered at History of the French Navy. A few paragraphs should suffice here. I'm seeking consensus before trimming. SteveStrummer ( talk) 01:33, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
This parameter is impossible to fill adequately for the whole of the French navy's history. It's utterly random that the list begins with the 19th century Sino-French War, but to include every engagement since 1624 would be ridiculous. Moreover, the parameter is for "battles" while every listed entry is a "war". This article continues to suffer from a high level of bloat, and this lengthy parameter is not helping. Compare to United States Navy or Royal Navy which don't employ such impractical fields. SteveStrummer ( talk) 03:45, 25 February 2018 (UTC)