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Frank Fahy (songwriter) →
Francis Fahy – A change to its current title was made by
Necrothesp while a
separate discussion was ongoing. However, the songwriter probably should be at Francis, rather than Frank. There are two external links on the songwriter's page:
Andrewa, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't think the result of the RM at
Talk:Frank Fahy (politician) affected this page, but I do think that in the process of considering all of those, the incorrect first name was, in good faith, chosen for page of the songwriter, given that he was known in the sources more as Francis than as Frank.
Iveagh Gardens (
talk)
13:04, 9 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the ping. I don't think that clarifies anything, in view of your opening rationale here saying A change to its current title was made by Necrothesp while a separate discussion was ongoing. You seem to have found that context to that bold move relevant, which is now even more puzzling to me. I don't think it will affect the result of this RM, but I fear that it may mislead others, which is why I made the comment to which you have now replied.
Andrewa (
talk)
19:03, 9 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The context was that the move was a good faith attempt to provide better disambiguating titles for each of three pages at
Frank Fahy. I believe this one was mistaken, as the songwriter is more commonly known as Francis, but that case stands irrespective of other pages that were moved.
Iveagh Gardens (
talk)
21:17, 9 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I am happy to support either of the alternatives. But I will say that it seems quite clear to me that while there is some record of this man being called Frank, he is generally known to the historical record as Francis. While
Necrothesp says that Several of the sources quoted are those that generally list full names for everyone, that's true in some cases, but not others. For example, a magazine like Ireland's Own would be as likely to use a common name as a formal full name; while the DIB titles the Ceann Comhairle's page as
Fahy, Francis Patrick (‘Frank’), the songwriter's page is titled as
Fahy, Francis Arthur. Even the specific Google search
Roman Spinner for
Frank Fahy Irish songwriter shows results that mainly name him as Francis, rather than Frank (the exceptions on the first pages of results being to the Book Depository and to Irish Music Daily). —
Iveagh Gardens (
talk)
12:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Move to
Francis Fahy (songwriter). I can accept the nom's assertion that he is often referred to as Francis, but also per Necrothesp, he's not the only one. The sources in the article don't seem to use a middle initial, so disambiguate with a parenthetical. —
Amakuru (
talk)
21:13, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
Support this alternative. There are several possibilities with not a lot to choose between them. This is at least as good as any.
Andrewa (
talk)
21:31, 5 January 2023 (UTC)reply
A
Google search for "Francis Fahy" shows a mix for with or without the initial, and some like the Dictionary of Irish Biography using his middle name in full in its article title. That said,
Francis Fahy (songwriter) seems a reasonable title, all things considered, if we're not to use the former title of this page,
Francis Arthur Fahy, which was also probably fine.
Except that his full name was without a doubt not his
WP:COMMONNAME! We never add middle names simply for disambiguation purposes if they were not commonly used. That's a long-standing principle on Wikipedia. --
Necrothesp (
talk)
15:10, 9 January 2023 (UTC)reply
I had thought that the DIB example, which don't use middle names universally in their titles, indicated that it's not a case of using it simply for disambiguation purposes. But reading
WP:MIDDLE, I can see the case in either direction, and it may be that they are using the middle name for disambiguation where they wouldn't in the case of a unique name, so I'm not hung up on
Francis Arthur Fahy as the title. I do think however it should be Francis, and avoiding using the middle name for disambiguation certainly doesn't mean we should use Frank, the name he is less commonly known as in the sources.
Iveagh Gardens (
talk)
18:46, 9 January 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.