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Why is there a part about depleted uranium rounds in the Flechette article? Depleted Uranium rounds are neither Flechette or even anti-personnel... just found it perplexing. -Peter
I have never located, anywhere, an actual reference to a "Heavy Flechette" (especially not anti-tank). As far as I know, there is no such thing. Flechettes are small metal darts (with emphasis on the small) used in the anti-personnel role. Typically the small darts are bundled into packages, and fired from a variety of weaponry, shotguns, rifles, tanks, artillery, rocket launchers, etc. After the round is fired, the package disperses the flechette contents into a wide pattern with the hope of hitting and doing severe damage to as many soft targets (people) as possible. Flechettes are usually useless against hard targets.
Further:
I have continued my research. I have located a single manufacturer (Oerlikon Contraves Pyrotec, seen on a Rheinmetall Defence website) that describes a 30mm round as an APFSDS-T "heavy metal flechette". This is the heaviest AP-type round I have found that the manufacturer calls "flechette". That and this Wikipedia page are the only sources I have so far been able to locate that equate "flechette" with "armor piercing". It's appearance seems more like a mistaken use of terminology than an endorsement that "flechette" rounds are AP-type ammunition. All other sources I have located so far refer to "flechette" as an anti-personnel round that packages small metal darts (sometimes only one) for use against soft targets.
“These 1 3/4" bomblets were air-dropped at height in canisters by aircraft, or scattered from buckets by helicopter crews, reaching sub-sonic speeds as they fell…” Does this make sense? They started at subsonic speeds. - Ahruman 23:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Could somebody put a note beneath the photo, clearly stating that the ruler-scale under the fletchettes is in inches. Many casual readers would assume it to be a scale of centimeters, since SI uinits are used (and assumed by default) by the vast majority of this planet's population. I don't know how to place such a note, so I can't do it myself. -- Peter Knutsen 02:12, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I believe that the information about the Flak cannon from Unreal should be ommitted, it has nothing at all to do with flechettes. It's kind of obvious that Flak is taken from the anti-aircraft guns, both in name and in the actual type of ammunition used.
I have removed said reference to UT as its obviously wrong to anyone who has played any/all of the games.Remember BE BOLD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.37.15 ( talk) 09:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm removing the "trivia" tag from the article, and renaming the section " in popular culture", as is seen in many other articles. -- Muna ( talk) 19:59, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed the Halo reference the "needler" fires some kind of homing energy thing that explodes a couple of seconds after impact not ar Flechette at all apart from them being needle shaped-- 58.173.5.125 ( talk) 10:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I am removing the following from the second paragraph "Small arms ammunition" section: "Second is the issue of recoil — for the same amount of kinetic energy, a lighter bullet (with a higher muzzle velocity) produces less recoil, and thus less shot dispersion in automatic fire." This sentence doesn't make sense. If the kinetic energy is the same, then the recoil has to be the same. Kinetic energy backwards of the weapon equals kinetic energy forwards of the projectile. Either the kinetic energy is less, or the recoil is the same. Someone who knows which it is can fix this. Kurt ( talk) 19:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
[discussion moved from user talk:Mzajac —MZ]
I've seen the moves back and forth from Flechette to Fléchette, and I'm gonna have to agree with fléchette here; a check of dictionary.com shows all listed dictionary entries as using the fléchette spelling. scot ( talk) 14:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I've restored the stable and most common spelling in the article. By the way, Seresin, when you converted the article to the little-used “proper name” [10] you also changed a direct quotation and two cited article titles. You're not only imposing your own preference against Wikipedia guidelines, your shotgun search-and-replace also made the article worse.
If no one has any other evidence, I'll move the article back to the stable title shortly. — Michael Z. 2008-11-01 19:53 z
A list of current manufacturers of these arms and shops and suppliers should be included in this article
In this section it says "The 12 gauge version is nothing more than a standard 12 gauge shell loaded with approximately 50-100 flechettes bound tightly together within sabot jacket". Unfortunately, there is no way anyone can pack anywhere near that number of flechettes into a standard 12-bore cartridge. As an example, in the catalogue for a company called Hi-Vel Inc. ( http://www.hi-vel.com/index.html), the description for a .410 flechette round says "Unlike the 12 gauge version that contains 20 1 inch steel darts, the .410 has only 8".
Also in relation to 12 gauge flechette cartridges, this section says "The typical maximum range for an assault shotgun that one can expect to result in instant incapacitation is approximately 60 yards. The Flechette round extends this to approximately 100-120 yards" and later, "A typical spread at 100 yards is approximately 3 to 3.5 feet in diameter". I have spoken to a few forces veterans about this, and their consensus opinion is that firstly, 'instant incapicitation' is just not going to happen with flechettes at anything like this distance, and secondly that 3.5 foot spread at 100 yards is total nonsense. Browsing around various gun-type forums would appear to support this; a typical comment was "These flechette rounds were a joke. 90% of them hit the target sideways, not point-first. ... The spead was extreme - something like an 8-foot wide pattern at 50 feet". 77.107.162.102 ( talk) 14:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Both 'flechette' and 'flechettes' are used in the article... Anyone know which is correct? -- 76.28.89.211 ( talk) 02:12, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
"While those claims are still to be investigated, it is known that several civilians (including at least one news reporter) were injured by flechette-type ammunition.[citation needed]."
This isn't merely a claim anymore. Its become public domain knowledge confirmed even in Russia, except by some state-run outlets who staunchly allege it was a car accident. See links on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Storimans —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.95.25.120 ( talk) 16:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC) More linkage on the use of the Iskander missile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z_RbML36gs 82.95.25.120 ( talk) 16:24, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
I read this article years ago, the most interesting part was the origin, when pilots dropped improvised projectiles from planes (in WWI or before?) that accelerated to deadly speeds simply by the height from which they were dropped. This isn't even mentioned any more. Also the structure leaves something to be desired, how can you start with "Small arms makers are also attracted by the exterior ballistic ", when nothing about that has been said yet? 84.197.178.75 ( talk) 21:04, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Article indicates IDF is using flechettes and the only source is palestinian groups. I think we need a better source before claiming Israeli use of this weapon.
[1] (no. 9 currently)
Just a heads up. In 1974 I was stationed at Lowry AFB,Co, a training center. My room mate was a "muzzle fucker," an aircraft munitions specialist. He gave me a few flechettes, one a little bigger than a penny, the other perhaps 70% larger. They were blued and finned, looked exactly like they were made in a nail factory. He told me they were packed by the thousands into bombs that broke apart mid-air with a small charge, dumping their payload. They were sometimes/often used in tandem with Willie Petes in thick jungles, the Willie Petes would go first. One of flechette bomb's official uses was jungle defoliation. (Like Willie Petes (white phosphorus incendiary rockets) were officially for smoke signaling.)
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2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:B8D4:A673:1F88:B7D0 (
talk)
19:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)Doug Bashford
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/127840-flechettes/page-2 Exerpts:
"...to their right are two of the more unique Vietnam flechette items, U.S. Navy 81mm MK120 flechette mortar rounds. These were used only by the Navy in their MK2 Mod0 deck mounted mortars. These mortars were used on Swifts, ASPBs, Monitors, and other riverine craft and could be depressed to fire horizontally into the river banks to suppress ambushes. Of course, the mortars could be conventionally drop fired or trigger fired to send flechettes..." "...In front of them is the WDU-4A/A warhead for the 2.75" folding fin rocket. This is the Vietnam era warhead and is different from the M255A1 warhead mentioned..." "...and contains much larger 60-grain flechettes. These are officially anti-materiel flechettes ..." "...The round at the right rear is the XM546 APERS-T beehive round for the 105mm howitzer...." fascinating photo!
The article gives the impression that flechettes are from dusty history books, —how cute!— and devalues current usage. The article says in total about current American usage:
The 70 mm Hydra 70 rocket currently in service with the US Armed forces can be fitted with an anti-personnel (APERS) warhead containing 96 flechettes.[citation needed] They are carried by attack helicopters such as the AH-64 Apache and the AH-1 Cobra.
Here's some of what I found:
/info/en/?search=Hydra_70#Common_warheads
The Hydra 70 rocket is a 2.75-inch fin-stabilized unguided rocket used primarily in the air-to-ground role. It can be equipped with a variety of warheads, and in more recent versions, guidance systems for point attacks. The Hydra is widely used by US and allied forces,...Warheads:
Designation Description Weight Payload M255 APERS (anti-personnel) 2500 28 grains (1.8 g) flechettes M255E1/A1 Flechette 14.0 pounds (6.4 kg 1179 60 grains (3.9 g) flechettes WDU-4/A APERS 9.3 pounds (4.2 kg) 96 flechettes of unknown weight WDU-4A/A APERS 9.3 pounds (4.2 kg) 2205 20 grains (1.3 g) flechettes
Boeing AH-64 Apache - Wikipedia /info/en/?search=Boeing_AH-64D
The Boeing AH-64 Apache is an American four-blade, ... During Operation Desert Storm on 17 January 1991...The Apaches each carried an asymmetric load of Hydra 70 flechette rockets, Hellfires, ...
http://hasanudin-adien.blogspot.com/2013/04/hydra-70-rocket-system-united-states-of.html
Hydra-70 rocket system is ...the most commonly used helicopter-launched weapon system in the world. [Among] the nine warheads used with Hydra-70 include the ...M255A1 Flechette containing 1,179 60-grain hardened steel flechettes. It is used against light material and personnel targets. Upon firing,... The rocket system can be installed on most rotary and fixed-wing aircraft, such as the AH-64 Apache, AH-1Z Viper, AH-1 Cobra, OH-58 Kiowa, UH-60 Black Hawk, P-3 Orion, MH-6 Little Bird, A-10 Thunderbolt II, AV-8B Harrier II, UH-1 Iroquois, F-4 Phantom II, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, OV-10 Bronco, A-4 Skyhawk and A-6 Intruder. The latest order from the US Army, placed in February 2013, is valued at $224m. GDATP will supply Hydra-70 rockets and...
Notice that's just the U.S. Hydra-70 rocket system usage. One can now buy one pound of flechettes for about US$35. Cheers!
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2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:7503:4FF:E70D:33B0 (
talk)
05:13, 26 October 2017 (UTC)Doug Bashford
I am removing the claim that these weapons "are considered a human rights violation". The citation indicates that a single lobby group has so claimed, without reference to any human rights law that the weapons allegedly violate.
If that's sufficient to establish that they "are considered a human rights violation", then I should be able to add "is considered fraudulent" to the 2020 US Presidential election, which I could support with 20 or more citations no less credible. 31.125.75.71 ( talk) 03:35, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Why are there two paragraphs about the Lazy Dog bombs used “later“ by the US? These are not flechettes and there is a separate article about lazy dog bombs. I would think that at most they warrant a single sentence pointing to the separate article. How about “The United States copied the principle in the creation of projectiles they called Lazy Dog bombs.”
The rest of the article is about applications in US small arms, artillery and rockets. While the name might have been copied, to me these are distinctly different from true flechettes and have more in common with the case shot used in smoothbore cannon.
That leaves the article with little more than the first two or three sentences. However, more information could be added about the use of true flechettes. For example, given the name of French origin can we confirm that they are a French invention? Are there any names and dates associated with that? Were they then adopted by the British, the Germans, the Americans, and others, and if so when? I recall reading that WW1 pilots carried a supply of flechettes which they dropped over the side when they flew over enemy lines, and that despite the millions of them dropped in World War I there is no record of any soldier having been hit by a flechette. I’ll include that if I can find a source. Finally, did such flechettes fall out of use along with open cockpits?
I’d like to see something more like an encyclopedia article than a catalogue of later arms developments. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 11:14, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Human Rights Watch and AFP have reported the use of cluster munitions and specifically flechette shells in Ukraine as early as 2014, the article states only the Ukrainian spokesperson claim that they have not used these types of munition. It is very clear that the HRW and AFP reports clearly contradict these claims by Ukraine.
My edits have been reverted based on an innacurate assessment of what a flechette shell is. It is very clear in the sourced article that flechette shells refer to cluster bombs consisting of explosive shells encasing flechettes. There are no grounds for the revert. It is relevant information because Ukraine has been using flechettes in Ukraine since 2014, regardless of whether it has been fired by a gun or artillery. This is the cited source: https://news.yahoo.com/surgeons-ukraines-rebel-donetsk-confirm-cluster-bomb-usage-205747600.html There are many other sources utilizing the term "flechette shell" as a specific variant of a "cluster bomb". This particular user that reverted my edits claims that "flechette shells" are specifically for rounds shot from a gun where it is very clear in many sources that this is not the case, see:
Edencardim ( talk) 19:31, 26 April 2022 (UTC)