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Their web site states "more than 1,500 NTM missionaries" and lists 16 nations (15 with missionaries "assigned"). Their online database shows 1,690, a sampling of which shows many without recent entries or entries only from their training within the U.S. Not sure what better source there is for a count of active missionaries, or an average active in a given year. Samatva ( talk) 20:08, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
Despite the best of intentions no contact between two widely differing cultures leaves either unchanged. If NTM is to be (justly) accused of transculturization, it must equally be acknowledged that it is impossible for this not to occur, within the stated purposes of the organization. Christianity, itself, is "western" and conservative evangelical doctrine adds a layer of cultural norms and practices upon scripture. Standards of hygiene, agricultural practices, medical care, the sanctity of human life, standards of discipline and punishment for offences as well as what constitutes an offense are all culturally-based practices that the individual missionary inevitably introduces to a foreign culture. It has been my privelege to live in several different countries, each having its own culture, and to have been affected them. Even though I was a NTM MK myself (in the 1950's) and have a sister and nephew as active NTM missionaries, I recognize that from a more liberal perspective there is much to be criticised about NTM practices. The fundamental criticisms differ little from those offered against any fundamentalist Christian organization - it is their expressed intent to impose a set of beliefs on the non-believer. Agilberttx ( talk) 08:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
08/13 NEW TRIBES 99.62.255.202 ( talk) 21:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Kulture Klubber 99.62.255.202 ( talk) 21:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)We can't keep indigenous peoples like "pristine museum pieces" in the jungle forever. I used to live with them for many years in Panama jungle; know language and culture fluently. Well-liked by them, but I felt obligated to help them and share the good side of what civilization has; warmth, light, knowledge, science, hygiene literacy, etc. Taught them how to use money and the value of it, taught them to be wise in money dealings with outsiders. Yes, we also taught literacy in their language, upheld their language, brought in literature to read, including the Bible translated into THEIR language. I learned many good things from them, too. Went lots of places in their world with them as friends. I think the survivalists and anthropols can be the cruel ones in many ways; getting college degrees, trekking in the jungle for "five minutes", looking at what we were doing as they passed, and judging us as evil, writing distortions, outright lies about us, like they credible authority. We just keep on teaching literacy, healing sicknesses, getting warm clothes for them, etc. I think the indigenous people deserve knowledge and a choice. 99.62.255.202 ( talk) 21:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Kulture Klubber on New Tribes, etc. 99.62.255.202 ( talk) 21:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
OMG the "we cant keep [them] in a pristine condition" statement sums up exactly what a bunch of crackpots American evangelical christians are. How dare you presume to "know" what is best for so-called indigenous peoples? If they want contact let them seek it for themselves. Your statement about teaching them about fiat currency (aka 'money') speaks for itself. NTM is a disgusting organisation not too far removed from the likes of ISIS in terms of the death by disease and cultural vandalism it causes. 81.107.245.123 ( talk) 04:43, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
(Random heading inserted by Said: Rursus ( ☻) 08:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC))
Where is it located? Will they be sending missionarys to America? GangofOne 05:30, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
They are located at Miami, Florida US, and have been heavily accused of transculturization in native south and central american tribes and illegal activities such as gold and silver extraction employing underpayed natives, this article is extremely biased, i strongly recomend a complete reedit 200.35.231.172 6:30, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
First off, I am really not trying to delete all the criticism from this article--I am just trying to make sure that it is sourced accurately--As for the criticism from Paul Gifford, the source is "Gifford p. 202"--> which gives me no help at all trying to check the sources--Mr. Gifford has written several books, and after doing a Google book search, and am having trouble finding which book it is--Does anybody have any ideas? Thanks! Anapologetos ( talk) 16:18, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
So I was poking the article today, and as I followed the sources for the Survival International claims, I read the source, [1], and as I looked at it, all I am seeing is that this organization, Survival International makes some pretty heinous claims about NTM, yet they have no sources that they reference--All it is is "At least five of the 'evangelised' Ayoreo died during these expeditions, as the uncontacted Indians tried to defend themselves from capture. " claims that this is a fact--But they dont quote any eyewitnesses, or anything--How can we use this as a valid source when they don't even have any sources that they quote-- Any thoughts or ideas? Anapologetos ( talk) 05:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Here's an article from the New York Times that reports on an incident involving the New Tribes Mission and the deaths of Ayoreo Indians: [2]. There also is a relevant quote in the article from the Mission's director Fred E. Sammons. The Times article states "For the New Tribes Mission, on the other hand, integration is itself an objective. There are people who like to say that the Ayoreos are happy living in the jungle, Mr. Sammons wrote recently. Yet if you ask anyone who has had a taste of civilization if he wants to go back and live like he used to, the answer is always a very positive 'No'. " This quote also supports Survival International's claims about groups like New Tribes Mission threatening the cultural survival of indigenous groups. Lastly, the article states, "critics of the New Tribes Mission, including lay anthropologists and rival Roman Catholic missionaries, have cited the death of the five Indians as evidence that American evangelists hunt down primitive Indians and destroy their culture in the name of converting them to Christianity." This statement and a similar critique from Survival International should be sufficient to include the statement suggested above by SU Linguist that "Survival International and other critics have accused New Tribes Mission of using criminal tactics in their zeal to convert indigenous populations, including armed manhunts, kidnappings, selling them into forced labour, imprisonment in Mission camps, and even genocide, though they have given no evidence for these assertions." However, I think that given the New York Times article, I would omit the words, "though they have given no evidence for these assertions." Warbler713 ( talk) 06:09, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm removing a POV statement and a dead-link source. Just look at eco-action's missionary page, nothing could be more POV.-- 24.174.98.215 03:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Hello there! I have been lurking around for quite a while now, but I thought I would get involved. I am currently a student at one of NTM's training centers in MO. First up, I wanted to apologize for the NTM person who edited this article w/o logging in and discussing such changes. It was brought to the attention of NTM's leadership, and dealt with. I am not speaking for NTM, but I do know that they do not look kindly on that kind of stuff. We wish to be above reproach on everything we do. Having said that, I would like to take this opportunity over the next while to help provide factual, NPOV, sourced material for this article. I can point out many such errors right now (The article states that "this training is accredited" (speaking of the NTM training), when in fact, it is definitly NOT accredited. I have just graduated from one of the 2-year Bible schools this past may, and I have an associates degree that is accecpted at many major colleges (moody/CIU, etc), but it is not acredited. Things like this, I would like to help clean up--but, I am a firm believer in all that wikipedia stands for, and as such, I will be sourcing/verifying, and discussing all edits. I think that that is all I have to say! Hope ya'll have a great day! Anapologetos 18:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm a full-time missionary with New Tribes Mission, serving in our Communications offices. There are still some factual errors, but in light of the issues that have arisen earlier, I'm going to simply introduce myself at this time and invite any questions or comments you'd like to throw my way. Ian fallis 21:35, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
This article still reads like a pamphlet for the New Tribes Mission. Can someone better informed of their activities write a "Criticism" section? -- Zaxios 09:50, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The "critical statement" to which you refer comes directly from the New Tribes Mission's own home page "doctrinal statement."
Check out the shocking book, "Thy Will Be Done" by Gerard Colby and Charlotte Dennett, on Rockefeller's co-opting of Rev. Cameron's Bible translating missionaries. These missionaries helped Rockefeller and the CIA rape and pillage Amazon villages, much like New Tribes Mission. -- 141.156.18.128 01:43, 14 April 2006
Whether or not this information is correct, the general tone is not neutral.
"Some have criticized New Tribes Mission for their beliefs, methodology and for specific alleged actions. But much of the criticism is misguided, uniformed, and highly agenda driven. " "Many of those who criticize New Tribes Missions ignore the vast majority of good work which is carried on by thoughtful and committed Christian missionaries who live their lives day in and day out in the heart of the jungle, painstakingly learning the language and the cultures of indegenous tribal groups and slowly translating the Bible into their own language." "As with all large organizations, problems exist and mistakes have doubtlessly occurred, but by in large, those who characterize New Tribes Mission as "slave traders", "industrial espionagers", "murderers", and the like, have an agenda of their own and do not understand the commitment and appreciation these missionaries have for tribal peoples and their culture. "
Words like agenda and ignore, etc, make it appear that the person writing this was interjecting his own opinion of people's reasons. If there is a citing that states they believe for (x,y,z) reason that the critics act with an agenda, you can write "Many believe this criticism is misguided..." Intent cannot be stated as a complete fact unless the parties who criticize them say for themselves they are acting with that intent.
Jelly23 15:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I revamped the controversy & criticism section, since it was reading more like a list of accusations than a real encyclopedia article. I neutralized the POV and formed some cohesive paragraphs so it flows more as a whole. However, the controversy section still consumes the greater part of the article, so it is still in need of more revision before the NPOV tag can be removed. I also moved the "Beliefs" section out of criticism since it contained no real critique of the organization. Rather, it was simply a short statement of some of their beliefs. -- Son of thunder 04:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Here's a thought: Does this entire controversy section belong on this page, or should some of it be moved to the Mission (Christian) page? Many of these criticisms are of the same sort that are brought against many similar organizations, such as Wycliffe Bible Translators (see the earlier anonymous post earlier on this talk page). Furthermore, the Mission (Christian) article and the Wycliffe Bible Translators article both have severely lacking or nonexistent controversy sections. Perhaps it would be appropriate to have a central location for this sort of criticism, and we could link to that from these smaller organization-specific articles. As it is, NTM's controversy section consumes the bulk of the article. If we could relocate some of this material, I think we could finally remove the NPOV tag.-- Son of thunder 00:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I've moved the NPOV tag back to the top of the article. It doesn't make sense to put it under the heading "criticism". How can a section with that title be "neutral"? If you think that the article is unbalanced because of this section, the way to change that is not to neuter or to remove the criticism section, but to expand the rest of the article to counter it. — Babelfisch 08:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
The controversy section of this articel cites no credible sources and seems to be written with the sole intent to malign NTM without giving any evidence of the claims that are leveled against it. It is poor journalism. That is why I deleted the section, it doesn't belong.--Credicthus
The controversy section does cite sources. It is not our mandate to discredit their credibility. The fact is that NTM has been criticized, and other contributors feel this criticism is necessary to make note of. Similar criticism exist on the [[SIL International] page. It would be poor journalism if these criticisms were not presented in an unbiased manner (as they were in earlier versions of the page). However, I have tried to neutralize the POV as much as possible. I have also added a lot of other content to the article, explaining more of NTM's methods and procedures. Per Babelfisch's suggestion above, I think the article is now broad enough to remove the NPOV tag. The criticism section is in its rightful place, and it no longer dominates the article, nor does it treat either side unfairly. Thoughts? If no one expresses negative opinions on this, I will remove the NPOV tag after one week (on 12/5/2006).-- Son of thunder 02:52, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Great, now we have New Tribes Mission editing their own article ( [3]), along with people from the Moody Bible Institute ( [4] and [5]).
I've deleted an unsourced comment about Eco-Action.org. I've re-inserted two sources that were deleted. [6] I have deleted the following paragraph because it is not an answer to criticism and the last part ("are in full agreement ...") can't be found on the page given as the source:
I've re-inserted the links to the critical articles the person from the New Tribes Mission deleted. What is this? Missionary vandalism in action?
It is interesting that anonymous users at the Moody Bible Institute know about the revenue [7] and the number of employees [8] of New Tribes Mission, but they should give their sources. — Babelfisch 06:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
The article has been greatly expanded and thoroughly rewritten since the neutrality dispute, accusing the article of being too negatively biased against NTM, was originally posted. References for the majority of the previously unsourced statements been cited. I propose the removal of the NPOV tag.-- Son of thunder 03:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
NPOV tag has been removed based on Babelfisch's suggestion to expand the article to balance out the criticism. This has been done and Anapologetos and myself agree that the tag can now be removed. No one else has contributed to the discussion in weeks.-- Son of thunder 23:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Is this an ad for New Tribes Mission or a Wikipedia article? What happened to this article? 216.66.108.54 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:59, 28 September 2011 (UTC).
Do any of you, the people editing this page, actually know anything about NTM from first hand experience or in depth reporting? I am not associated with NTM in any way, nor am I a huge fan of them (for other reasons) but the accusations that are being lobbed toward them are downright comical, or they would be if they weren't so horrible and viscious. Some people have a bone to pick, obviously, and the allegations are ridiculous. I was born and grew up in Papua New Guinea, my parents were Missionaries with NTM and so I've been around the organization for a long time. I lived in a tribe and nursed at the breasts of the village mothers... talk about missionaries integrating with the people and respecting them.
Anyways, of course they make mistakes and have some odd ideas but not on the scale that is being accused. They are not "slave traders", "genocidal" manics, "murderers", "gold diggers", "espionagers" etc. 95% of what they do is simply translate the Bible into native languages and present the stories to the people. Anyone who takes offense at that, should study history and note the benefits that this has brought society at large, let alone the benefits which come to the tribal people themselves as a result of the missionaries presence. Anyone who wants to preserve their "virgin" culture needs to first go live with them for a few years and see if these people really want to keep living in permeable grass huts on the mud floor with insects eating your children alive, with a life expectancy of 35 years, a horrible infant mortality rate, sickness, abuse, fear of the spiritual world around them, no ability to read or learn or understand the world around them, no law and order, no hope, etc. Trust me, most of them want to improve their condition. And most missionaries are very careful not to import their own culture, but preserve the local culture. Sure they get axes, so they don't have to use stone axes anymore. And they start wearing clothes. But have you ever tried to wear a grass skirt! It's itchy and not very nice. Nor is a Penis gourd. They are malnourished because they don't know how to farm well, and don't understand the importance of planning ahead, and as a result they are at the whim of nature. It's easy for western types to want to "preserve" these indigenous cultures, and I agree that's important. But we shouldn't treat them like animals and keep them in their "natural environment" like creatures in a zoo for our own pleasure so we can sleep at night just knowing that the "indians" still exist. It's often selfish on our part.
Also whoever is accusing NTM of this stuff needs to do their homework, because NTM doesn't work with tribes unless they are invited by the leaders of the tribe. Many tribes are begging for missionaries. Some because they just want fishing hooks, machetes, and malaria medicine, and some because they are living in fear daily, of the spirits around them, they are disillusioned and sick of their animism and they have heard that the missionaries have good news and they want to hear it. Anyways, anything else that they might be accused of, should be proven first. And then if any of it is TRUE, it should be noted how this doesn't represent 99.999% of the missionaries or the work they do. This is the worst article I've read on wikipedia to date. Chadwick Meyer —June, 14, 2006
To balance things a bit, may I tell of friends of mine were missionary students in the Matlock centre here in the UK some years back; it was I who transported them, their kids and all they owned, to the centre in my truck. They were a long-term married couple and had joined with their four young children, after much soul searching. Acting on his conscience, the man confessed, a few months in, to a brief, extra-marital gay relationship, long since over and never repeated, (I must point out that I was not involved in that in any way, I was merely told the details by the man concerned as a trusted friend). His intention was to confess it, put it behind him and be faithful to God. The NTM leadership ,on hearing his confession, phoned the USA and immediately and with no opportunity to revoke it, threw the whole family out onto the street! They had given up everything to join, so were forced to start their lives over. This put a *HUGE* strain on their marriage, obviously, and caused my friend to go through a prolonged period of awful depression which lasted many years; he never really got over it. The leaders of NTM acted heartlessly and ruthlessly against a 100% committed Christian couple, and almost wrecked a marriage with many young children involved. They were completely unable to see that the man involved had only been in a temporarily confused relationship which he had wholly renounced, but my main concern is that these people go into tribal cultures and force their objectionable blind puritanism, along with their famed cultural annihilation, on uneducated people. NTM is a dreadful organisation, in my experience, through watching this family be treated like dross by them, and NTM's "witness" seems to be based on appearing lily-white, whoever it damages. The leaders exhibited not even a scintilla of the "spirit of Christ" in this whole nasty incident, which played a most significant part in my own rejection of evangelical Christianity, lock, stock and barrel. To read the NTM-flattering propaganda on the Wikipedia entry here makes me feel nauseated, frankly. NTM is quite evidently nothing other than a dangerous, dictatorial cult. Trevor H. (UK) 03:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC
Intro says that someone says:
This is not fit for an intro, since it simply tell us nothing, but instead gives us the impression that a fanatic was here and scrawled. They (the mission) might be good, but in the intro it should be substantiated in what way (whether they prepare by learning language, whether they prepare their karate and levitation abilities...), the subjective evaluation indicating "second to none" is a recension, and should be moved to some Public reception or some such. Said: Rursus ( ☻) 08:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
First para in section Mission reads:
And so?? The statement in itself is quite OK, but it must be followed by something about the method, otherwise it is just citation of a "boast". Said: Rursus ( ☻) 09:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
I have no problem with you taking out the unsourced statement about NTM being the 2nd largest, etc. The problem I have is that you also edited a direct quotation by David Hesselgrave, rendering the resulting quote very awkward, as well as not what he acutally said. If the article quotes somebody, we can't just go pulling out random parts of the quote. If you feel for some reason that we need to edit the Hesselgrave quote, by all means, let's hear it, but please don't just randomly edit quotes without written justification on the TP. Thanks! Anapologetos ( talk) 20:47, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
I converted the GRACE report link to a standard Reference link. I also removed the links to the Forum posts/Allegations, per the No Original Research policy [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anapologetos ( talk • contribs) 16:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
This article reads like a promotion for the missionaries. The base sections of the article come straight from the organization's own promotional material, rather than third party sources. As such we are left with a very distorted and one-sided perspective on the Mission, and this needs to be resolved. Owen ( talk) 05:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
I removed this because the referenced article from Smithsonian didn't talk about NTM at all, so essentially this section was original research Anapologetos ( talk) 09:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Franco cites the tragic recent history of the Nukak tribe, 1,200 isolated Indians who inhabited the forests northwest of Río Puré National Park. In 1981, a U.S. evangelical group, New Tribes Mission, penetrated their territory without permission and, with gifts of machetes and axes, lured some Nukak families to their jungle camp.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ideas-innovations/The-Lost-Tribes-of-the-Amazon-192124351.html
The section added this year regarding allegations of two Brazilian men keeping nut harvesters in virtual slavery is not actually connected to this group. There is a national mission in Brazil of the same name, but it has existed as an independent entity for more than 40 years. I would submit that this information is therefore irrelevant to this page because one organization cannot be held responsible for another organization's personnel's actions. I propose that section be removed entirely. Thoughts? -- RationalFacts ( talk) 21:06, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Well, since I've gotten no replies in going to remove this section. Please feel free to dialogue if you disagree with the decision. RationalFacts ( talk) 15:09, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
FYI, New Tribes Mission has changed its name to Ethnos360 [1]. This page should probably be updated accordingly.
Full Disclosure: I am an employee of this organization. Therefore, I will stay out of the discussion to prevent conflicts of interest.
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Here are a bunch of articles about Ethnos360 in the news over their attempts to contact tribes.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-indigenous/brazil-prosecutors-seek-to-remove-ex-missionary-from-indigenous-post-idUSKBN2052KY - this one mentions government ties, like the guardian link above.
I'm not sure where they'd go, but they are relevant citations. 2A02:C7F:B05A:E100:54C7:200A:E20A:9FD6 ( talk) 22:40, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
Although the part regarding recognition is true, they were recognized by Ministry Watch in the past, it is out of date. Ministry Watch no longer recommends them as a ministry to support. They instead recommend that potential donors withhold giving based on their transparency metrics. Here is the link. https://db.ministrywatch.com/ministry.php?ein=396024926 24.209.148.47 ( talk) 22:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)