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![]() | A fact from Est! Est!! Est!!! di Montefiascone appeared on Wikipedia's
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I am questioning the statement "with very little Est! Est!! Est!!! di Montefiascone being exported" in the article. When I did a Google shopping search, I found over 50 online wine retailers selling this wine in the United States, including products made by three wineries, Falesco, Bigi and Trappolini. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:03, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Wine, as a product, is open to criticism and that criticism is obviously subjective. In order to present our articles in the most WP:NPOV manner possible, we need to include those criticism when they are notable and can be reliably attributed to a source. It is false and misleading to the readers to not include reliably sourced criticisms especially when they are from notable wine writers. Of course we must present all material (criticism or praise) in the most neutral manner we can and I welcome any suggestion on how phrasing or presentation could be improved but a blanket white washing of any criticism from this article is extremely WP:POV. Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED because we are not the PR people of wine regions and wineries. Agne Cheese/ Wine 03:50, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Est! Est!! Est!!! Is a D.O.P. wine so - in general - it is recognized to be a high quality wine. Wine experts cannot express a judgment about those wines they haven't tasted yet. It is false and misleading to present to readers this wine as a bad beverage "in general". In this case being neutral is the thing to be avoided. -- Villapuri ( talk) 04:15, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
A wine is not something like coca-cola, that is always the same inside every bottle you open. You can taste a coca-cola and say without any doubt that what you tasted is and will be always the same everywhere Est! Est!! Est!! is produced following DOC regulation, but every winery makes a different wine. It's for sure that those experts did not taste the Est! Est!! Est!!! wine from all producers, it's not fair to express critics in general. I'm - and I was - asking you to just add some more information about the wine tasted, about the producers, the vinery, that made the product tasted. It's not fair to express criticisms that end up to offend also those producers that wasn't so lucky of being judged by those great experts. I'm available to give you more explanations if needed. Thank you
I think you are confusing what those wine experts wrote, their entire articles and the whole context (the book), with the usage that someone did of those writings collecting together some excerpts and making new sentences, and producing a new sense. This is a first point to catch. Important and to be kept in mind not just reviewing this article, but always. I don't think that Johnson etc said that the Est! Est!! Est!!! wine is in absolute, in abstract, in general good/bad. I'm quite sure they provided a lot of information about the product they tested. Again, I don't ask to white wash the criticism, I just ask to add more information, cause the cut/paste work produce a much more negative impact in relation to what those experts expressed in their books about some specific bottles. Again, you can be sure you'll obtain the same coca-cola in all the coca-cola factories around the world, but every Est! Est!! Est!!! producer produces a different product. I cannot taste one of those Est! Est!! Est!!! wine an simply infer all other Est! Est!! Est!!! products are the same, or extend my judgment to all others "ex ante". The matter is: the information provided is incomplete or simply the information provided is wrong. It's a metter of logic, not a matter of sources. This is my humble opinion. This explanation is the main help I can give you. I will also try to help providing some different sources-- Villapuri ( talk) 20:50, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Here you are, for instance, a source where a very famous wine expert states that a Est! Est!! Est!!! wine is a very good wine: http://www.lucamaroni.com/4DCGI/Rec03_239755 (please note all the details provided about the wine tasted). And maybe there are some other Est! Est!! Est!!! wine's producers still unknown to those experts, but very well known by the others that live the territory of lake Bolsena. Cheers -- Villapuri ( talk) 22:43, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
This is "the dullest" [1] answer ever received :) I will buy the book and then I will add all the proper information. Thank you and regards -- Villapuri ( talk) 20:13, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
In the paragraph "Central Italy" - taken from the book 'The World Atlas of Wine we were discussing - the entire period related to Montefiascone is the one that follows here below. "Another hotbed of wine ambition is just over the border in Latium (Lazio to Italians) in Montefiascone, the center of production of what is more usually the dullest white wine with the strangest name in the world: Est! Est!! Est!!!. The Cotarella brothers, one of whom directs the florentine wine house of Antinori, have shown through their Falesco negotiant business that this area can produce sumptuously modern Merlot, even if it has to be sold simply as IGT Lazio". Cotarella brothers produce their version of the Est! Est!! Est!!! wine under the brand Falesco: it's simple to me to infer that authors have expressed their extremely bad opinion tasting the Est! Est!! Est!!! wine produced by Falesco, Anyway, in my humble opinion, it's conceptually wrong to express a judgment about a wine "in general", without giving no information about the wine(s) tasted; by consequence, the info reported into this article should be removed. -- Villapuri ( talk) 00:00, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
"Usually" said by who? Usually said by authors' friends? By authors's mothers?... I don't understand. H. Johnson is creating - supported by Wikipedia - a legend strongest than the original one. -- Villapuri ( talk) 06:00, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
References
the article contains the cited quote "the story is considered by many wine experts, such as Master of Wine Mary Ewing-Mulligan, to be apocryphal." Modern wine experts are not experts on the Middle Ages. What is notable is what historians think. It probably is apocryphal, but I'm a wine expert, and that tells me nothing about this story. 108.6.235.51 ( talk) 04:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)