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Yes, merge Pol098 04:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
I was linked to Electricity meter from Power Meter. While in common usage the two are the same - there is another class of electronic test instrument know as a power meter that measures RF power. These are available from a variety of vendors such as Agilent Technologies.
Two things. What's up with calling this an Electricity meter? Does anyone use that term? The only term that I am familiar with is Electric meter. I would suggest changing the name of the article, unless Electricity meter is really used somewhere. Second, as to a power meter that measures RF power I would suggest adding that to Electronic_test_equipment
I support merging this article with Power meter. -- Chetvorno 06:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
It's electricity...and it's a meter. Keep as is.
This seems to be written from an electricity industry perspective and should be rewritten to NPOV. Benhutchings 11:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Punissuer that there is known unknown Fraud done by utility with consumers.
There are various ways of calculating the billing Parameters which differs hence there is difference how the bill is calculated .
-Sand Bold text== NPOV dispute "Tampering, security and fraud", "AMR and RMR" ==
The section on "Tampering, security and fraud" doesn't even mention the possibility of fraud committed by the utility against the consumer. If there are no known instances of such fraud, then the article should say so. Otherwise, notable instances of such fraud should be listed.
Section "AMR and RMR" reads like power industry propaganda: "All of us must be aware of the dire consequences that loom large on the power industry due to [energy theft]."
Only section "Power supply" mentions an activity that would be considered fraud on the part of the utility--"it is fraud for [the power company] to charge customers for the power meters' consumption"--and no assertion is made there about whether such fraud has ever been committed.
It is not NPOV to impugn the honesty of power consumers repeatedly without mentioning fraud perpetrated by power providers, or at the very least noting whether there have been investigations of such fraud, and if so, what was discovered by those investigations.
--Punissuer
I beg to disagree with the above. Anyone familar with this industry is aware of the fact that customer fraud is not uncommon. In the past I was familar with this industry and question whether you can find any cases of fraud in regard to the meter itself. Misreading it, yes.
--66.190.168.218
I invite you to cite some published statistics about the incidence of customer fraud. I personally would not be surprised that you are correct about customer fraud being common, but without cited sources, declarations about it are still hearsay.
In turn, to fail to mention even that a power company might take advantage of the complexity of its meters and/or the ignorance of its customers suggests that every power company, large or small, is above committing fraud. This suggestion beggars belief. We know at least one company, Enron, committed fraud on the largest scale imaginable. Why couldn't a smaller company deliberately misread or miscalibrate its meters?
These omissions give the article the air of a utility-centric point of view. Since an electricity meter is a tool in a financial transaction, namely money for electricity, it's fair to consider the issues of meter tampering and fraud. However, to allege without citation that many power consumers are thieves while ignoring that power companies have ample opportunity to defraud their customers is biased on its face, not NPOV.
--Punissuer
The below material was removed by a vandal a while back and should probably be put back in to the article... -- Ali@gwc.org.uk 21:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
The text below says "electric power" where "electric energy" is meant. Power and energy are confused by the writer. 83.160.128.179 ( talk) 09:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
= Means of operation ==
Modern electricity meters operate by continuously measuring the instantaneous voltage ( volts) and current ( amperes) and finding the product of these to give instantaneous electrical power ( watts) which is then integrated against time to give energy used ( joules, kilowatt-hours etc). The most common type of electricity meter is the electromechanical induction meter. This consists of an aluminium disc which is acted upon by two coils. One coil is connected in such a way that it produces a magnetic flux in proportion to the voltage and the other produces a magnetic flux in proportion to the current. This produces eddy currents in the disc and the effect is such that a force is exerted on the disc in proportion to the product of the instantaneous current and voltage. A permanent magnet exerts an opposing force proportional to the speed of rotation of the disc - this acts as a brake which causes the disc to stop spinning when power stops being drawn rather than allowing it to spin faster and faster. This causes the disc to rotate at a speed proportional to the power being used.
NONE the aluminum discs I have seen used in this kind of meter are flat. They all are textured with knurling or stippling in a way that reminds me of dimples on a golf ball. What is the purpose for this fabrication step? It is hard to believe that extra effort would be expended for such texturing if it did not have a utilitarian purpose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PEBill ( talk • contribs) 20:45, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
The aluminium disc is supported by a spindle which has a worm gear which drives the register. The register is a series of dials which record the amount of power used. The dials may be of the cyclometer type where for each dial a single digit is shown through a window in the face of the meter, or of the pointer type where a pointer indicates each digit. It should be noted that with the dial pointer type, adjacent pointers generally rotate in opposite directions due to the gearing mechanism. The type of meter described above is used on a single-phase AC supply. Different phase configurations use additional voltage and current coils.
Some newer meters are solid state and display the power used on an LCD. Most solid-state meters use a current transformer to measure the current. This means that the main current-carrying conductors need not pass through the meter itself and so the meter can be located remotely from the main current-carrying conductors, which is a particular advantage in large-power installations. It is also possible to use remote current transformers with electromechanical meters though this is less common.
Solid state meters can also record other parameters of the load and supply such as maximum demand, power factor and reactive power used etc.
Historically, rotating meters could report their power information remotely, using a pair of contact closures attached to a KYZ line. In this scheme, line "K" is attached to two single-pull single-throw switches "Y" and "Z". "Y" and "Z" open and close as the meter's disk rotates. As the meter rotates in one direction, Y closes, then Z closes, then Y opens, then Z opens. When it rotates in the opposite direction, showing export of power, the sequence reverses. KYZ outputs were historically attached to "totalizer relays" feeding a "totalizer" so that many meters could be read all at once in one place.
KYZ outputs are also the normal historical way of attaching electric meters to programmable logic controllers, HVACs or other control systems. Some modern meters also supply MODBUS interfaces to PLCs, or a contact closure that warns when the meter detects a demand near a higher tariff.
I think the sentence saying it is a "reluctance motor" should be deleted. Can anyone explain why this sentence should be included? I don't see much similarity between an electricity meter and a reluctance motor.
mikemcn Mikemcn 02:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand that US meters are typically read without being reset- the difference between the meter reading across a period of time is what is used. But do electric companies(or employees of the utility) have the power to easily change the wheel on a meter (without relying on the tactics used by "fradulant" customers)?
My understanding from this article is that most (American) electric meters are measuring reactive power or Volt-amp-hours and not Watt-hours. Is this correct? Does that mean that our bills incorrectly say that we are being charged for KWhs? If I use a device like a motor or compact flourescant bulb for 1000 hours that uses 20 watts, but also consumes 40 volt-amps, how many KWhs will I be charged for, 20 or 40? -- Samuel Wantman 08:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Try it and find out. 199.125.109.48 03:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
No, electric meters only measure real power (watts). The amount of reactive power flow (VARs) doesn't matter significantly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.84.227.165 ( talk) 01:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
12.5.107.78 16:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Megger would like to be added as an external link to the Electricity Meter article under "Meter Testing Equipment".
Megger manufactures and markets electrical testing equipment including products for watt-hour meter testing.
Our website is http://www.megger.com
If you have any questions, please contact Gary Guthrie, Marketing Director at 214-331-7360.
Thank you.
This section refers to "the meter running backwards" when supply is greater than demand. Does a conventional meter run backwards when power is fed though it in the reverse direction or is a special meter required? If the former, perhaps this should be made clear. If the latter, perhaps someone could add details to this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.142.90.231 ( talk) 17:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
If you have a solar panel or wind generator a standard meter will run backwards. In the past electric companies installed ratchets to make you pay for all the power you got from them and they happily accepted all the power you gave to them for free. Now we use net metering which means that the meter just turns backwards or forwards and you only pay for the difference between what they supply and what you supply. 199.125.109.48 03:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Currently the text is rather haphazard, there's no real clear "flow" from say, basic description to history through the evolution of the different types/methods to modern versions, etc. Things seem randomly thrown in/added with no design for the overall. 68.39.174.238 00:30, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
There needs to be a how-to section under the tampering section.
The article neglects meters owned by end users. For example, the "Kill A Watt" from P3 International sold at Radio Shack. D021317c 21:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Is it possible to make an article on time switches ?
I've taken this out. Is it *really* the case that the Indian grid operates for protracted times at frequencies other than 50.0 Hz? the whole idea of customers paying different rates based on the frequency seems more than a little incredible to me - in North American practice, there's no way you'd see enough frequency deviation to reliably detect this anyway. Knowlegeable comments, anyone? -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 20:25, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
May I suggest, Meter tampering device to be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.100.15.6 ( talk) 15:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Please include a section on diy meters. An example is the open-source meter presented here by christian wendt (please include). Useful for eg domestic PV systems with batteries —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.172.166 ( talk) 08:48, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
A section says: "Some meters using Economy 7 switch the entire electricity supply to the cheaper rate during the 7 hour night time period, not just the storage heater circuit. The downside of this is that the daytime rate will be a touch higher, and standing charges may be a little higher too. For instance, normal rate electricity may be 7p per kWh, whereas Economy 7's daytime rate might be 7.5p per kWh, but only 2.8p per kWh at night." This reads like encyclopaedic, quasi-scientific fact. Surely, power-suppliers can configure their tariffs any way they want and could choose to supply economy 7 without a higher daytime rate nor a different standing charge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 ( talk) 08:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
We have come to this Wiki page to understand how the KYZ interface works.
The wiki page as of January 28th, 2010 says:
In a KYZ interface, the Y and Z wires are switch contacts, shorted to K for half of a rotor's circumference. To measure the rotor direction, the Z signal is offset by 90 degrees from the Y. When the rotor rotates in the opposite direction, showing export of power, the sequence reverses. The time between pulses measures the demand. The number of pulses is total power usage.[8]
Reference 8 refers to the book on Handbook for Electricity Metering and says to look in the index of the current edition. We have the 10th edition of this book which is the one the Wiki shows when you click on the reference and the index of the 10th edition does not have KYZ in it. It also does not define how to measure rotor direction. Could someone correct this reference? We are trying to find the specification as to how to use the KYZ pulse to measure rotor direction. We have looked at KYZ pulses coming out of real meters and do not see the 90 degree phase shift in the Z signal. Do all meters have this shift or only some?
Rjapenga ( talk) 16:51, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
I thought Schallenberger invented the AC watthour meter? Trying to find something on Thomson's meter, but Magnets and Electric Currents. an Elementary Treatise for the Use of ... By J. A. Fleming on Google Books shows a commutator-type machine. This time the Hungarians really might be first. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 15:18, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
The first AC meter was created by Ottho Blathy in 1889. The story was similar to the Transformer. Westinghouse had to made alternative designs (similar to transformer) to avoid the patent-right problems. However alternative designs were not so precise as the original Blathy-meters. Therefore these american alternative designs have been never used in Europe. After the patent-rights of Ganz expired, the Westinghouse and General Electric started to use the European Blathy-meters.-- 77.111.183.192 ( talk) 13:59, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The alternative designs were short-lived temporary obligate solutions. Therefore the mention of these systems are misleading for wikipedia readers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.111.183.192 ( talk) 14:01, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
No, It was his first invention, a DC watt meter in 1884. His AC wattmeter was invented in 1889. It was the "monarch" of AC wattmeters (due to its precision) until the digital meters. The mentioned alternative AC designs were shortlived.
Great inventors, their only problem were: Nobody used their electricity meters in the 20th century :) However Blathy meter remained as electricity meter until the digital meters. Bye! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.111.183.192 ( talk) 14:34, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't matter. Bláthy invented the principline, Schallenberg made a similar and patented it in the USA. That time international patent-protection didn't exist. There were only national patent protections. Similar to electric CRT Television systems Zworykin patwented the innovations of Hungarian Kálmán Tihanyi (as you can read about Tihanyi in Farnsworth, Elma G 's book. ( Distant Vision: Romance and Discovery of an Invisible Frontier ) Philo Farnsworth's wife told the truth about modern charge-storage televisions and the inventor: Kalman Tihanyi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.111.183.192 ( talk) 15:29, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Read about it: http://www.google.com/search?hl=hu&tbs=bks:1&tbo=p&q=Romance+and+Discovery+of+an+Invisible+Frontier+tihanyi&num=10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.111.183.192 ( talk) 15:35, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
ieee.org said that Schallenberger made the same device what Otto Blathy made
Ricks, G.W.D.
This paper appears in: Electrical Engineers, Journal of the Institution of Issue Date: March 1896 Volume: 25 Issue: 120 On page(s): 57 - 77 Digital Object Identifier: 10.1049/jiee-1.1896.0005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.111.183.192 ( talk) 17:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
The Ferrari meter the Thomson meter and Shallenberger meters were not real wattmeters, they were just coulomb meters. Bláthy meter was the first real wattmeter.
Institution of Electrical Engineers Radio Section |Issue Date: March 1896|On page(s): 57 - 77|Digital Object Identifier: 10.1049/jiee-1.1896.0005|
http://www.archive.org/details/journal06sectgoog and
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F5308791%2F5309105%2F05309109.pdf%3Ftp%3D%26arnumber%3D5309109%26punumber%3D5308791&authDecision=-203 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Blathymeter (
talk •
contribs)
13:34, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
See also:
-- Wtshymanski ( talk) 04:24, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
The meters in the article measure electric energy. This is also support by Google test
Most common is Electric energy meter, followed by Electrical energy meter. NuclearEnergy ( talk) 00:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move back to Electricity meter. JohnCD ( talk) 17:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Electric energy meter → Electricity meter — Revert undiscussed page move. Original mover is now edit-warring and repeating the same move. Andy Dingley ( talk) 01:54, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Electricity meters operate by continuously measuring the instantaneous voltage (volts) and current (amperes) and finding the product of these to give instantaneous electrical power (watts) which is then integrated against time to give energy used (joules, kilowatt-hours etc.).
It is different from a voltmeter, which displays voltage, a wattmeter which measures power and an ammeter which measures the electric current. NuclearEnergy ( talk) 02:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above touched on the dab page at Electricity meter (disambiguation). Do people agree that the dab page (and consequently the hatnote on this article) is not needed, as the other items on the list are not called "electricity meter", but are merely meters with a connection to electricity?-- Kotniski ( talk) 07:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
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I'm doing a research project and cannot find on any state's public utility/service commission website nor on any power company's websites how a particular power company calculates wattage for their electric meters. I understand that there are many ways a meter can be calibrated for wattage. I'm interested in these calculations to show energy savings for a new product. Ktuwilliams ( talk) 18:20, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
"... a standard meter will accurately record power (sic) flow in each direction by simply running backwards when power (sic) is exported. Such meters are no longer legal in the UK but instead a meter capable of separately measuring imported and exported energy is required"
This is nonsense. The induction type meter is still the most common electricity meter in use in the UK which does run backwards when energy is exported. In local 'green' energy schemes such as photovoltaic schemes, the same induction meter is retained and it ordinarily deducts the energy fed in at the same rate as any energy drawn out. The PV's microcontroller system keeps track of the energy generated and the energy consumed at any time and automatically calculates if any extra credit is due by virtue of producing a net energy flow into the electricity supply at the prevailing feed in tariff. 109.153.242.10 ( talk) 15:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Copper was used in most electromechanical meters in Canada and US until about 1955 by Lincoln-Sangamo and other manufacturers until copper became too expensive. Registers and gears were made from copper and suffered the same fate. 174.118.142.187 ( talk) 15:12, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Mention those lock-like seals too... at least a see-also. Jidanni ( talk) 07:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Mention all those factors on their labels, e.g. "Rr", etc. Jidanni ( talk) 07:07, 17 November 2012 (UTC)