![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I'd say that the section on post secondary education is quite biased. It doesn't mention junior/community colleges as well as two year colleges. And its tone is unecyclopeadic. It barely mentions mainstream state universities. Thunderbolt16 04:30, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
There are many issues with education in the United States today but the main problem is that schools today focus on testing rather than curriculum itself. Teachers teach to the test rather than to real life and students lose the interest in the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.209.133.36 ( talk) 07:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
The first paragraph of "School Grades" sounds pretty absurd, could someone please name a country where ordinal numbers are not well understood?
It would be interesting to know what they use in Spanish and French-speaking countries, I know ordinal numbers are used in Germany and Scandinavia. I would still suggest rephrasing the paragraph to something like: "The U.S. uses ordinal numbers for naming grades, unlike Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom where cardinal numbers are preferred. Thus, when asked what grade they are in, typical American children are more likely to say "fourth grade" rather than "Grade 4.""
I'm not bothered about the ordinal/cardinal thing, but I would appreciate someone stating just what these US grade numbers represent, because I want to relate them (specifically the output of the Flesch-Kinaid readability test) to the UK education system. My guess is that each US grade is one year of education and that school pupils start in grade 1. That may sound pathetically pedantic - but is it correct? -Norman Paterson, norman@cs.st-andrews.ac.uk
"Top public universities such as the University of California, Berkeley, the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, the University of Virginia and the University of Washington, Seattle, (sometimes referred to as " Public Ivies") are also held in very high regard and actually perform better than various elite"
In our examples of "public ivies", the University of Washington should not be listed because there is no consensus on its status as a "public ivy". It makes no sense to list UW when the other three institutions have consistently been ranked among the top five public U.S. universities. Every single major ranking as UW separated from the pack. For example, the The Times Higher Education Supplement has UW behind UT Austin, Michigan, UCLA, UCSD, Illinois, Purdue, Penn State, and Wisconsin Madison. In the Shanghai Jiaotong study, UW is ranked behind UCSD, UCLA, and Wisconsin. UW is hardly an uncontroversial example. It is also excluded from the Moll book that coined the term " Public Ivy". This is not to mention the U.S. news ranking... UCLA would be a less controversial choice. -- Jiang 05:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
We can't just pick a single ranking (Florida) and discredit the others: this is asserting our own POV and "picking and choosing only rankings that support our argument". Anyway, if we were to rely on a single ranking (which we should not), we would be listing Berkeley, Michigan, Washington, and UCLA. We should avoid drawing our own conclusions here, based on the Wikipedia:no original research rule. What do other people include in a list of public ives?
If we going to provide an example here of public ivies, it is better to take it from an inclusive list, because a list of examples naturally includes ommissions. I don't see the need of including UW here. Why UW and not UCLA? -- Jiang 08:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
POV is a personal opinion that is not backed by any reference. That was certainly not the case there. Given the various rankings, I tried to logically highlight the relevant one. Popularity is another debatable issue. G-factor attempted to measure that and it is more scientific and objective than certain personal beliefs. The latter inclines more towards POV than the former. The citation of UW ex-dean can be considered ad-hominem but I trust that you were just joking. - mcks
your comments is controversial too. the use of reference is what not constitutes as original research. if we put ucla, we should include UW to make it more inclusive then and end this dispute one and for all. mcks
Agree with mcks. UW should be included. To quote wikipedia guideline, "In this sense, that a survey produced a certain published result is a fact." and "Wikipedia is devoted to stating facts in the sense as described above." It seems mcks has tried earnestly to be open-minded, cool-headed and constructive in this discussion. Published, professional research is so much more credible than certain individual opinions. -- 155.14.66.29 16:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Any choice can be made controversial. That's why Wikipedia encourages relevant reference. -- 155.14.66.29 16:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
New section because of the sheer absurdity of the argument. I disagreed with Jiang! Basically, Jiang is acting like an authority here. In the list of Public Ivy, everybody counts both Green and Moll. To say, UW is "sometimes" Public Ivy also means UIUC is also "sometimes" public ivy. That is utter nonsense! Why don't you say that to UIUC and others and see if they agree. If you are so confident, get all their feedback and publish it. Then we talk. Challenge Green! Eliminate all Green's schools in the Public Ivy section and tell them that they are no longer a public ivy because Jiang thinks that one reference is not enough to qualify as one. Tell everybody that they only count for "sometimes" public ivy. Then we proceed. The topic is about research here. If you don't accept the reference, contact UoF and argue with them. Why don't you cite G-factor where UW ranks high? Again, you must disagree. Then contact them and argue with them. U of Virginia and UCLA also have their ranks lower than UW at some places. Let's start a new section about UCLA then. Dispute it and take it out. Many private unis have lower ranks in SJTU. Why don't you argue it with them and take them out! U Mich is lower than U Wash in SJTU. It is disputable. Why don't you take it? Go and argue with SJTU! To take out something because you guys start a discussion is a cheap trick. Enough with your ego! It's embarassing that even among the public schools, the attitude is still like this. To think that you guys are probably more down to earth. What a shame! We must refer this to the administrator if this continues further! Can't we do without UCLA? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 155.14.66.29 ( talk • contribs) .
Please let me try to answer the questions. This "ladder" is not absolute, however. Top public universities (sometimes referred to as " Public Ivies"), such as ... <-- click on the Public Ivy. It's already hyperlinked. Sigh ... Is this what America has become? Everybody here is so smart. But, with great power comes great responsibility. Collaboration is often more positive than competition and that's my personal opinion. -- Mcks 04:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
SJTU, UoF have taken into account Nobel Prize, NAS fellows etc. Again, argue with them first. Many private uni don't have any name in the periodic table. Take them out! Ivy League and Little Ivy have examples, yet, they are already hyperlinked. Delete them! -- 155.14.66.29 23:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree that U of Washington should be removed from the list of public Ivys. But to include UCLA as a public ivy is also academic boosterism (I'm guessing Jiang is a UCLA student or alum). UCLA is certainly an excellent institution, arguably the fourth best public university in the US (and interestingly enough, one of the most highly respected universities in the Asian communities, surpassing the likes of Rice, Northwestern, etc.), but in the east coast (where I live and work), UCLA is still seen as your typical big state university jock school. Of course, one could make the same argument for other top notch public schools that fall below the "Public Ivy" threshold including Texas, UNC-Chapel Hill, and Wisconsin. I agree that the only legitimate public Ivy institutions are Berkeley, Virginia, and Michigan. Teknosoul02 20:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
U of Washington is listed by Greene as a public Ivy. Moll lists it as an honorable mention. Why don't we just link this sentence to the Public Ivy article--which cites both Greene and Moll--instead of listing them here? This would prevent omissions. I myself went to the U of Georgia, which Green lists as a Public Ivy. However, I don't think it should be listed next to Berkeley, Virginia, and Michigan. Thus, we should just link it to the Public Ivy wikipedia article and allow those who are interested to read. This makes more sense than arguing about inclusion. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
65.205.28.104 (
talk)
17:49, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The article mentions "varies" and age ranges, but it doesn't specify why. Therefore, I suggest adding in clarification that explains that the starting age (not compulsory -- totally different matter) is determined by either start of school year or calendar year, as well as developmental readiness. For instance, I started school when I was 5 because my birthday came before the start of the school year, and my brother started when he was 6 for the opposite reason. I would add this clarification myself, but I'm having difficulty wording it the way it should be. AbbydonKrafts ( talk) 03:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 15:26, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I found an interesting article which criticizes the current "teaching to the middle" educational system in the U.S. I'm not quite familiar with this article, so could someone insert it? Thanks. [1] -- haha169 ( talk) 04:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
"High school athletic competitions often generate intense interest in the community. Inner city schools serving poor students are heavily scouted by college and even professional coaches, with national attention given to which colleges outstanding high school students choose to attend. State high school championship tournaments football and basketball attract high levels of public interest" This paragraph is not so clear to me grammatically. I think it needs a few punctuation marks. Also what is national attention? Could we consider revising the paragraph. I didn't since I'm only reading this article and am not a person who knows about this subject. Canon46 ( talk) 13:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
For this section:
"Criticism At-risk students (those with educational needs that aren't associated with a disability) are often placed in classes with students with disabilities. Critics assert that placing at-risk students in the same classes as disabled students may impede the educational progress of both the at-risk and the disabled students. US also has an underfunded education system. Student graduation rate from high school is rapidly declining thus endangering the reputation of education received in US by students." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.254.57.75 ( talk) 18:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
While originating in what is essentially a comic strip, this "article" references real data on teaching salaries in US colleges [2]. Really should be included in article with slightly better reference! Student7 ( talk) 00:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC)