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I realize this may be treading onto sensitive political ground, but would it make more sense to split this entry into 1) the historical First and Second East Turkistan Republics, which while not recognized by Chinese authorities were real governing bodies for at least a time, and which feed into the 2) broader concept of East Turkistan as a homeland for the Uyghur people (i.e., an expansion of what's in stub form at Uyghuristan), which in turn influences 3) separatist/independence politics in what is currently the Chinese-administered territory of Xinjiang (which has barely any mention of the political situation there at all right now, perhaps reflecting the geographical orientation of the article)?
Just an idea. -- MC MasterChef 23:46, 24 March 2005 (UTC)
I've started in on First East Turkistan Republic, primarily working with Xinjiang: China's Muslim Borderland ( ISBN 0765613182) as my source. I've also created a WikiProject on the WikiProject Uyghurs of Western China (which is basically just a rough outline idea right now) for coordinating information on Xinjiang, Uyghurs, and the area's politics and history, if anyone would be interested in taking part. -- MC MasterChef 14:46, 27 March 2005 (UTC)
I removed the reference to http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/1999/10/12/0000006151, because in this article, according to Erkin Ekrem, 5 leaders of this government were died in a plane crash and were kidnapped and executed in Moscow. It is rediculous. Skyflier
As there have been no objections, I've split this article into five separate concepts. The archive of the original material, which should be migrated over to the new articles shortly, is located here. -- MC MasterChef 16:54, 7 April 2005 (UTC)
The link 'East Turkestan - Arabic' no longer seems to work. Can someone find out what happened to it if possible at all? I wonder if the operators of the web site in question have been arrested for 'subversion'? The English text on the home page of the web site (as it stood four months ago) in question seems to have a rather aggressive tone. 122.109.121.8 ( talk) 07:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Is this a real separatist and/or historical flag of East Turkestan? --
Himasaram
02:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Hello,
No, it's not the national flag of East Turkistan, what you show. I, Uyghur native, put the right national flag on the page. It has only one crescent.
Greetings, Kemal. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.130.112.85 ( talk) 21:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
This flag used by Ottoman, each crescent present three continent Africa, Asia and Europe with red background. I don't now who put this flag here but he/she/they playing with peoples mind. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.155.7 ( talk) 02:45, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
There's a "weasel words" remark sitting there since nov. 2009. I wonder if it's time to remove this. Although I cannot comment on the contents of the section marked, I can say the language, even if it's a bit story-telling style, is all "factual statements", not ".. famous historians say.." kind of weasel talk.
Ofcourse, the "machiavellian and clever politics" remark, is not factual/neutral and shouldn't be in here unless backed up by some external source (and marked as such). But this is already marked diretcly on the sentence in question. And a lot of the "factual statements" lack proper citing. But that doesn't make them "weasel words", right? I think we should use proper markings that indicate if something's wrong, but "weasel" doesn't seem to apply here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Endorf ( talk • contribs) 09:20, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
"Xinjiang" offends my moral sense.
It shouldn't be in Wikipedia.
Maybe we should say that it is it's own republic--occupied by the Peoples Republic of China, who call it Xinjiang! Dawit
Also on that page it says that the leaders "crashed" as they were going to visit the communist leaders of the People's Republic, the way it sounds the People's Republic did an assasination then occupied East Turkestan not to mention made sure Chinese people loyal to the People's Republic take over the government facilities giving virtually no automony. China has a problem of just walking into countries and occupying not allowing self government--Tibet is another one that comes to mind.-- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 10:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
(to village pump audience:) Does anyone know much about East Turkestan/ Xinjiang? I can't say I do, but the article doesn't look very NPOV, and it keeps getting added to lists of countries, List of national flags, that sort of thing when it appears to just be a Chinese province. Scurra 17:54, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)
This article is flagged for merger with
Xinjiang.
This is not the first territory to be occupied by an external people, and to experience a name change.
Looking at the precedence of other territories that have shifted hands, we should have the geographic discussion and the history of Turkestan in the present article. And history from 1949 onward should be in the History of Xinjiang article.
Grounds for preserving the East Turkestan article: the people (language, appearance, religion, history) are specific to this area. See the situation with the Assyria and Assyrians article as parallel and precedence of wikipedia practice.
Historical sources [prior to 1949] for the area use the term, "Turkestan." They do not use the term, Xinjiang. We should be consistent with the lexicon and historical practice that is already established. Furthermore, to do so would confuse people that encounter Turkestan in the literature and then find it absent in Wikipedia and instead find reference to Xinjiang. Dogru144 ( talk) 18:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The East Turkestan article deals with the proposed country, and should contain only the details regarding its nationalistic/secessionist points. The article Xinjiang is about the actual region in existance, and only that article should deal with its people, culture, geography, society, history, etc. "Xinjiang" is the most commonly used English-language term for the region. -- Joowwww ( talk) 19:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Again, note that the area had a documented history as a sovereign area, dating several hundreds of years Before Christ. The region was separate from China for all of its history until 1759. The area was an independent country twice in the first half of the 20th Century. In each instance, the name, Turkestan, not Xinjiang was used. Xinjiang is only in use in English because China has applied a Chinese name to this Central Asian, Muslim land / culture. Dogru144 ( talk) 15:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Jowww, it is only part of China because they chose to occupy the land. As for the past there has to be a history of the region including what it was recorded as. Taiwan is not totally internationally recognized neither is it totally recognized under it's legal name "Republic of China." Only a mere twenty countries recognize it, so you can't say it is internationally recognized--if you want to define internationally recognized in this term. The two Republics were its given legal name when they were considered independent.-- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 16:45, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I hate to say it I think Joww is a Chinese national that wants China to take all the credit for East Turkestan. Face it Joww it was independent from China and had its own culture before China occupied it. -- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 15:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
East Turkestan can still be a republic but not be internationally recognized. The two republics discussed no one had control of them but the ones who established the Republics and also before occupiers even came they had full control. We can not say Turkestan was always part of China and we can not say China made their culture. I think if you did that then you would slanting your point of view. -- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 10:57, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Consequently you still call it Xinjiang, I can honestly say it should be referred to Eastern Turkestan because it WAS whether you like or not referred to that before even the first Chinese occupation. Xinjiang was a name given when China occupied the land.-- Truthfulchat ( talk) 13:33, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
With all due respect..also by wikipedia policy a vote was taken for a merger into the "Xinjiang" article, which the vote was that it was not to be. There is a current Xinjiang article already and you can click on the link. Second, East Turkestan is recognized as common in some documents. So your goal to change the name has no basis. I do want to know with a name like Jowww, you must be Chinese, which could make your opinion bias. I am neither Chinese nor Uighyr.-- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 12:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Having separate articles for different time periods under different names or different claims isn't that uncommon, so I don't see this as particularly aberrant or contrary to policy. See, e.g., Constantinople, Königsberg, Northern Epirus, etc. -- Delirium ( talk) 19:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
This article is very bias and obviously is written from a Chinese perspective. It should be at least mentioned that East Turkestan and its native Turk and Kazak people enjoyed a measure of independence prior to the 1949 Chinese invasion of their land. USSR attempted to give the area independence in exchange for access to its uranium deposits. China's claim to the area should at least be challenged somewhat in the Wiki article due to the fact there were no Chinese people in the area before 1949, and China and local Turk, Ueygar, and Kazak people have completely different cultures from the Han Chinese. Please also consider the unknown deaths (est. 50,000 - 100,000) and imprisonment of anyone who denied China's "historical right" to the land--about 500,000. There was also CIA activity in the Thiwa area (now know as another name: U...). This, and the Russia mining, may have precipitated the Chinese invasion. The Chinese Communist Party wanted to secure resources and land (as China did with Inner Mongolia and Tibet). –KAZ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cantkillthedrifter ( talk • contribs) 00:21, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Definitely very biased one is clearly able to see the Chinese influence on the article, needs urgent reviewing. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
46.9.70.196 (
talk)
21:01, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
The native "uyghur" name is not Qurighar. Thats the Uyghur translation of the Chinese name "xiyu" (which dates back to the Han dynasty. The native "uyghur" name is Moghulistan, because the Uyghurs were ruled over by the Chagatai muslim Mongols, hence the name "land of the mongols" aka Moghulistan.
As for the name eastern turkestan, it was invented by westerners in the 18th century, another bame for the region was "little Bokhara", vis a vis the Emirate of Bukhara in "western" turkestan. The uyghurs then took that name from the west and politicized it. Rajmaan ( talk) 00:05, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Milktaco ( talk) 05:23, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
The article doesn't seem to have a balance at all. It seems as if written by chinese interior minister. How far can you go? Maybe you will be happy for your conquest on wikipedia for a few days. Think about this: There are some people, a minority, in your country who feel oppressed by chinese policies. You understand that? oppressed. They can't express religion, culture, language and they are not happy. Separatists? This is your term, than I call you occupant, expansionist and invader. Separatist is not the right term. They are uyghur people. If you don't want to be called invader, than don't call them separatists. It was china which invaded the territory not long ago anyway. When we are talking about china, we are talking about a country in which facebook is forbidden. No matter how you try to reflect a twisted fact, it won't impress anyone. This article is biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.104.30.234 ( talk) 22:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
You must obey to the Noble Cause rule yourself first. As mentioned by several people above this article is heavily chinese dominated, and reflects the chinese noble cause. You can find resources and links to prove the earth is flat as well. But you must allow the other people say it is not. I simply sense that this article is biased, and want people take an action on it. I return the word "bitching" to yourself. This wording reflects the socio-cultural level that you belong to. And it indicates you have psychological reasons to discriminate people and have hatred for them. I don't have time to deal on this issue. But it doesn't mean that I shouldn't notice the strong bias in it. Just think a second, how you would feel when you were discriminated in australia for being chinese, how would you react if you were restricted to practice your religion there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.104.30.234 ( talk • contribs)
I wonder why there is not even a single word about how human rights are being destroyed in Uyghurstan. Basically, people are not allowed to go to mosques and pray. If you use an Islamic song as a ringtone, you are considered terrorist by law of China. Tell me how that is not an interesting topic about human rights violations? Tell me how that does not have a single word in a Wikipedia article? Tell me you use Wikipedia for the right information and not for the information which you have and think is right. Please be justful. You will regret this hypocrisy one day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.172.238.109 ( talk) 08:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia is for everyone, therefore it should not be one sided, support freedom of Uighurstan movement!--Korsentry 03:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry ( talk • contribs)
I admire your Ideas about feelings, but I have different ideas about Uighurs and the socalled ETR with you guys. Although CCCP made the two Republics(1933/34)(1946/49) puppet, they re not recognised by the Chinese government, no matter RoC or PRoC. And there is no more room for the dream of so-called ETR. Nowadays Uighur people ENJOYED the autonomous region. But they are "represented" by the freedom fighters in your opinion. UK and US smeared about HK,TW and Tibet,now they come for Xinjiang? By the way, the government don't support the so-called invasion. We are randomly chinese people.Sigh,why do I tell you that? I myself am a senior school student. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 天津小外杨连洲 ( talk • contribs) 04:23, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:53, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Is the cultural extent of Xinjiang and the political boundary of autonomous region of Xinjiang the same? Like the case of Tibet and Tibet Autonomous Region, and Manchuria.
Please reply at Talk:Xinjiang#Cultural_extent. Thanks . — Insta ntnood 08:37, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)
Why not mention the infuence from the Han Chinese? Do the editers of this article think that the Han Chinese contributed nothing to the culture of the so-called "East Turkestan"?-- Szechwan001 ( talk) 21:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
The Han Chinese are occupiers that came in because the People's Republic chose to occupy the East Turkestan republic. So even though they took over the government facilities they were not elected when they came in they occupied. Should we say occupiers make up that culture? I mean then we would have to say Iraqi culture is based on US culture since US is still in Iraq. The only difference here is US no longer occupies the civilian government facilities as the Chinese government does in East Turkestan and also Tibet.-- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 11:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Xingjiang/ET has had long cultural intercourse with China and various other nation/cultures stretching back thousands of years. in addition Uyghurs were not the original occupants of Xingiang region having arrived later. any discussion of culture therefore needs to also include earlier peoples rather than this singular islamic nationalist narrative thats currently being portrayed on this page. Xingjiang region was under Chinese control from the Qing dynasty and the PRC involvement would be at most a reoccupation based on this historical claim. not sure what you are trying to do by forcing a awkward comparison with the US occupation of Iraq. thats like comparing orange to apples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.203.223.29 ( talk) 06:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
My point was we can not suggest that Han Chinese made the area's culture when there clearly were indigineous people in the areas. Plus the Chinese came way after other people were living there even before the Qing dynasty. What is was pointing out is America went into Iraq occupied the country and set up a Coalitional Provisional Authority government basically controlling Iraq, since we did that could we say that their culture is ours because we occupied the land? I think not because Iraqis like the people in Turkestan (before the Chinese occupied it) already set up a culture there.-- 220.127.51.66 ( talk) 16:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Im afraid its not the case here, the modern Uighurs ARE the original occupants of the land, as the recent DNA research has proven that the intermingling of European 60% and East Asian 40% (Hunnic) that's found in the modern Uighur people has occurred NOT as the historians claim 1200 years ago but at LEAST 2,500 years ago, which is long before the Han Chinese even stepped foot into the region...This also explains the welcoming and giving up power to the so called "refugees" Uighurs of "Mongolia" by the local European population... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.73.131 ( talk) 12:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
This article is about 'Eastern Turkestan'. There is no evidence that Uighurs called themselves Turkestanis 2500 years ago. Indeed there was no such thing as Muslims 2500 years ago, so the modern Uighurs and the people 2500 years ago are by definition of different ethnicity. 86.166.123.12 ( talk) 15:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
This bullsht about Uyghur's being a different ethnicity 2500 years ago should have to with the awkward chinese definition of ethnicity, that is to define ethnicities based on religion and other cultural traits. What exactly does "muslim ethnicity" or "han chinese" mean? These are made up definitions that serve chinese propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.50.81 ( talk) 07:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Obviously they are not Chinese people, they should be free from China's ruthless occupation. It's funny how Chinese condemn American in Iraq and Afghanistan but doesn't condemn China's occupation in Tibet and Uighurstan. --Korsentry 03:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry ( talk • contribs)
Equating Xinjiang with "East Turkestan" is like calling San Diego "Northern Mexico". It's just too much of a stretch on several levels. In the case of Xinjiang vs. East Turkestan ...
1. Have a lot of people been living there? No, since most of Xinjiang (I've read at least 95%) is uninhabitable for any life-style. Settlements were mostly oases and/or trading posts along the Silk Road(s). Even taking into consideration nomads and use for travel, it leaves the vast majority of the area not a territory of any people before the 1800s.
2. Has there been a persistent nation or political state? No, only invasions, migrations, genocides, warlordism, and sometimes partially as a part of larger civilizations (Chinese dynasties, Tibet, the Mongol empire and khanates, maybe modern-day Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Russia/Russian Turkestan), none of which historically associated the majority of Xinjiang as a territory of their nation). In fact, the peoples (may it be the Turks who ended up in modern-day Turkey, the original Uyghurs, the Mongols, the Chinese, the Tibetans, nomads, settlers, invaders, etc.) regularly displaced and killed one another along tribal, clannish, national, and other lines of demarcation. This is not to say that people can't just all get up today and decide to self-determine their own nation, but it does mean that the argument for "East Turkestan" over Xinjiang has no historical basis.
3. "Xinjiang" is actually the Mandarin pronunciation of the characters meaning "new border", reflecting the fact that the area was a relatively new addition to the Qing dynasty and constituted a part of its & its neighbors' borders. Therefore, the written characters may actually be one of the better candidates we have towards a neutral, accurate term for the Entire Geographical Area; the alternatives being related to Turkestan (which never reflected the entire area, nor is it endorsed by any actual Turkic nations) or Uyghur (but not everyone in Xinjiang were Uyghurs, and neither are the present-day Uyghurs exactly the same as the very first ones where the name probably originates). Unfortunately, it may be more difficult to reach a consensus on the pronunciation.
DXDanl ( talk) 04:56, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:54, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Geographyinitiative: You restored the Template:Infobox country in this edit, but this article is about a term for a region with varying definitions. The use of Template:Infobox country is inappropriate here because this article is not about a current country, former country (besides those already covered at First East Turkestan Republic and Second East Turkestan Republic), nor a government in exile (which is covered at East Turkistan Government-in-Exile). The hypothetical modern independent state is covered in the article East Turkestan independence movement. This implementation of infobox country does not correspond to any of its propoer uses. — MarkH21 talk 07:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
@ MarkH21: Okay, I will try to make this infobox into a box like the Tibet and Kurdistan boxes. But come on dude, don't delete infoxes wholesale when they provide readers useful info. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
I think that we need to protect this page in this edit war.-- ROXANNE9090 ( talk) 14:44, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Maybe we should start a new page about the country East Turkestan with a gouvernment in excile. This page is about the region, and I think if you want to write something about the region you need to go to the page about Xinjiang. This page is about the Uyghur East Turkestan and not the region East Turkestan in general. Or we need to make a new page about the Uyghur country East Turkestan. I also think that this page is wrote with a Chinese point of view and not a neutral point of view.-- ROXANNE9090 ( talk) 14:40, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
@
CentralAsiaEnthuist: You cited the 11th century text Kutadgu Bilig as a claim for The term was first mentioned in the 5th Century in Persian texts
. This claim needs to be substantiated in secondary
reliable sources, e.g. academic books or papers, rather than cited directly to old primary sources (also the link you included is a dead link, but that's not the main issue). Same with the claim for the 16th century book. It is already well-referenced in the article that "Turkestan" for the broader region had such origins, but not "East Turkestan" for this region.
The other claims, such as Due to the city-state oasises and independent kingdoms and khanates across East Turkistan, the term East Turkistan wasn't used as a political term until the late 19th century
are also not cited to any reliable sources in the lead nor in the article, and should be included unless you can find references for them. —
MarkH21
talk
00:13, 23 January 2021 (UTC)