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On 9 February 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Dunstan of Canterbury. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
I noticed the date 961, when Dunstan became archbishop of Canterbury, is inconsistent with the article 960. So I checked other websites, but there is no consensus - 1 said 958, 6 said 959, 12 said 960, 5 said 961, and although some left the year out, none said anything like "about 960" - they were all sure. The history of this page is that it was changed from 960 to 961 by "Harry Potter". Art LaPella 22:15, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
I think you mean 960 not 560. Art LaPella 02:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
There has been no further comment, so I just changed it to 960. Art LaPella 20:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Dunstan was made ABC in 959 and traveled to Rome to recieve the pallium from the Pope the following year. His reign shound be dated from hiss elevation in 959. -- SECisek 00:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
None of this has anything to do with this article:
This article contains a
list of miscellaneous information. (June 2007) |
-- SECisek 22:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
There are several paragraphs in the body of this article that are reproduced almost verbatium from the public domain Catholic Encyclopedia. This needs to be cleaned up. -- SECisek 03:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I question the value of this material - listcruft in this article:
-- SECisek 16:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Really rather more should be included about his artistic activity. Although attributions cannot be firm, the consensus seems to be that he was quite a significant artist, with several surviving manuscript illuminations, including what is probably a selfportrait (kneeling below a large figure of Christ). I've not managed to find a version online, but there should be one somewhere. Johnbod 17:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes and yes check back in a few. -- SECisek 18:20, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
It's always best to upload pics to Commons btw, and include as much detail as possible, so other people can identify & use them. Johnbod 18:56, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I got it loaded but couldn't find the category you mentioned. It is under cat:saints for now. Oh, if you think this is GA can you score it as such? -- SECisek 11:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Found the cat. - done! Thanks for the Wikicommons lesson. -- SECisek 11:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I have taken on Dunstan for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by Secisek. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I will shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Regards, EyeSerene TALK 09:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this impressive article under the six Good article criteria, and have commented in detail on each criterion below:
1 Well written FAIL on MoS; see below
1.1 Prose
The prose is generally good, flows logically and is pleasant to read. There are a few parts that might benefit from a minor copyedit to improve the flow (some paragraphs consist of lots of short sentences with no transistions that come across as rather abrupt), but not to the extent of a GA fail.
1.2 Manual of Style
The article complies with the MoS in its style, and is well-wikilinked to add depth. Headings and citations follow the correct format (and templates are use for the references, which although not a GA criteria is a nice extra touch!). Only one minor point here:
* The accepted section order is: Article body; See also; Notes; References; Further reading; External links. The See also section needs relocating to fit this order. Done
2 Factual accuracy PASS
The article is well cited, and makes good use of reliable secondary sources. I found no evidence of original research.
3 Coverage PASS
The life of St Dunstan is very comprehensively covered, and the article remains focused throughout.
4 Neutrality PASS
The article is written from a neutral point of view, and contains no evidence of bias.
5 Stability PASS
The article history shows no instability or evidence of recent edit-warring.
6 Images FAIL
All images used are appropriately captioned. However:
As a result of the above minor concerns I have placed the article on hold. This gives editors up to a week to address the issues raised (although in some circumstances the hold period can be briefly extended). To help with tracking, editors may like to strike through each comment as it is dealt with, or use the template {{done}} after each comment.
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or are ready for a re-review. In any case I'll check back here in seven days (around 27th August). All the best, EyeSerene TALK 10:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I looked at it and it SEEMS correct. Dunstan gets almost booted twice: Aethelstan kicks him out (which I beieve is refered to by you. Edmund almost throws him out until he has the incident with the cliff. Are you confused or am I?
If you feel you can correct the POV go for it. The material I used is cited. There is no mention in the Eadwig article about his marriage, so I didn't feel it would be worthy of mention in Dunstan's.
Perhaps you missed these passages:
His work restored monastic life in England and reformed the English Church....Dunstan, now abbot of Glastonbury, went to work at once on the task of reform.[1] He had to re-create monastic life and to rebuild the abbey. He began by establishing Benedictine monasticism at Glastonbury.[6] That the Rule of St. Benedict was the basis of his restoration is not only definitely stated by his first biographer, who knew the Dunstan well, but it is also in accordance with the nature of his first measures as abbot, with the significance of his first buildings, and with the Benedictine leanings of his most prominent disciples.[3]
Dunstan's first care was to rebuild the church of St. Peter, rebuild the cloister, and re-establish the monastic enclosure. The secular affairs of the house were committed to his brother; Wulfric, "so that neither himself nor any of the professed monks might break enclosure."[3] A school for the local youth was founded and soon became the most famous of its time in England...The count of Flanders, Arnulf I, received him with honour and lodged him in the Abbey of Mont Blandin, near Ghent.[3] This was one of the centres of the Benedictine revival in that country, and Dunstan was able for the first time to observe the strict observance that had seen its rebirth at Cluny at the beginning of the century...With their aid and with the ready support of King Edgar, Dunstan pushed forward his reforms in the English Church.[1] The monks in his communities were taught to live in a spirit of self-sacrifice, and Dunstan actively enforced the law of celibacy whenever possible.[8] He forbade the practices of simony (selling ecclesiastical offices for money) and ended the custom of clerics appointing relatives to offices under their jurisdiction. Monasteries were built, in some of the great cathedrals, monks took the place of the secular canons; in the rest the canons were obliged to live according to rule.
More?
No, you are not too picky, I hope I have addressed your concerns.
Are you certain about Edmund sending him away both times? Am I confused? Are these the same event? All other changes are great!!! -- SECisek 14:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
“ | Dunstan came to the attention of King Æthelstan, and became a member of the royal court. At Æthelstan's urging, Dunstan was ordained priest and professed as a monk by his kinsman, Bishop Ælfheah. But Dunstan's membership of the royal court was short-lived: his self-righteous piety so aroused the envy and enmity of his colleagues there (including some of his own kinsmen) that he was thrown into a muddy pool and was lucky to escape with his life. | ” |
Congratulations on an excellent copyedit on the suggestions provided. I have now passed Dunstan as a Good Article, and listed it as such on the Good Articles page under Philosophy and religion > Religion, mysticism, and mythology > Religious figures and leaders. For the record, Secisek, Angusmclellan and Wassupwestcoast contributed significantly to this GA pass (with five or more major edits in the last 50).
Well done all! EyeSerene TALK 19:37, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes! Be bold, but please cite any new material. Some of this I was aware of but did not feel it was relevant, some of it adds a welcome POV to the existing material, and some of it is new. Please add and cite! -- SECisek 16:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Sometime ago I put in ad edit that Dunstan was the grandson of King Ethelred I, which was reverted as I did not source it. Recently I began to work on this point and found that the article with my edit in it was copy & pasted on to Wiki Answers and I cannot remove it.
Basically the argument is thus- Dunstan's uncle is given as Athelm, Archbishop of Canterbury in the Catholic Encyclopaedia, from Vita Dunstani and his father as Heorstan and his other uncle as Alfheah the Bald. The sons of Ethelred were Princes Aethelwald and Aethelhelm. Aethelwald was passed over in favour of his uncle Alfred the Great and fought Alfred's son Edward the Elder in 901. He threw in his lot with the Danes and his son was named after the Danish leader Hastan- in English Heorstan. If Prince Aethelhelm was the same as Athelm, the Archbishop and Heorstan was the same Heorstan as was Dunstan's father, then Dunstan was the grandson of Ethelred's eldest son. Heorstan must have been as popular an English forename as Adolf after WW2, so how many could there have been, especially with uncles- or rther greatuncle's called Aethelhelm ? Athelm is said to have been a monk of Glastonbury, local to Dunstan, but Prince Aethelhelm had a son, Aethelthyrth. However this is not impossible as it seems likely that after the debacle of Aethelwald's rebellion, other family members would take up the cloth to eliminate themselves from the running, until the fuss had died down and then left their vows behind. Before Dunstan's Benedictine reforms clerical vows were very lax and Alfheah himself had a son when Archbishop.
This is important as it gives a new perspective to the career of Dunstan. Quite clearly his ecclesiastical career was very much fast-tracked by his connections and eventually he exercised even greater than Royal authority- regarding Edwy and Edgar. Just who did he think he was? And that is the question- maybe he thought he was the King of England. The identification of Heorstan and Athelm is not confirmed in PASE but it seems suggestive. Whadya think guys? Can we ever be sure? This would also indicate the relationship between Dunstan and Edric of Washington and Athelstan Half-King- the respective foster-parents of Edwy and Edgar. I know that Angus was not impressed with the King Ethelred-King Harold connection, of which I suppose this is a sub department.-- Streona ( talk) 23:48, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Image:Edgarobv.2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I have no idea what the attributes parameter in the {{ Infobox Archbishop of Canterbury}} is meant to be, but it initially looked to me to be "alt" text for consumption by screen readers. On investigation I discovered that this template doesn't yet support an alt parameter, so I've requested that one be added here. When it is, the present attribute text can easily be copied aross. -- Malleus Fatuorum 15:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi all - while creating the article clock chimes, I found a little cache of Dunstan info in the lovely book Church Bells of England. Full text available on the internet archive - I don't have time to add any here, but perhaps someone else will!
-- Vivisel ( talk) 23:41, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
This is a relatively minor point but I am confused about Dunstan’s family on his father’s side. In the 3rd sentence of the “Birth” section it states that Dunstan’s "father Heorstan was the brother of Athelm, the bishop of Wells and Winchester". This means of course that Athelm was Dunstan's uncle. Later, under the section “School to the king's court” in the last sentence of the second paragraph, it states that Dunstan “journeyed to Winchester and entered the service of his uncle, Aelfheah, Bishop of Winchester". The wiki entries for these two clearly describes them as two different men. Therefore, it appears that Dunstan had two uncles both of whom served as Bishop of Winchester. However, stating unequivocally that Aelfheah was Dunstan's uncle may be inaccurate because his wiki entry says only that he ". . . MAY have been a relative of Dunstan". Perhaps the confusion comes from the fact that there are different citation for them, Green and Toke. Or what is also very possible: I am missing something. Terence ( talk) 16:41, 30 November 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terence ( talk • contribs) 16:36, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian ( talk) 18:30, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
– Britannica uses " Saint Dunstan of Canterbury" but MOS:SAINTS says "Saint" is generally not preferred if the title without it is available but otherwise Saint Dunstan of Canterbury can be used. Also I'm not convinced that there's a clear primary topic for just "Dunstan" per views, Dunstanburgh Castle getting 1,188, Chestnut getting 16,604 compared with 2,590 for the saint[ [2]]. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:05, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
This article relies heavily on unreliable sources, especially Toke's 1909 article, and I have marked it accordingly. Dudley Miles ( talk) 07:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
He had gifts in language, such as writing, and could extend to speaking too. Historyghecko ( talk) 07:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)