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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 January 2019 and 16 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Choi.a. Peer reviewers: Choi.a.
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I see some tendentious edits being made to this article but no talk here. This won't do so I'm going to be bold and start talking. I am familiar with this matter as a term in UK physiotherapeutic practise and have some understanding of the medical theory behind it. Now we shall examine the sources and start editing the article accordingly. Colonel Warden ( talk) 19:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
The article was not neutral in its presentation of the controversy. It was clearly slanted to accentuate an argument for distinguishing dry needling from acupuncture. I have attempted to make it more neutral. I am a newbie when it comes to editing wikipedia (as evidenced that I am not even sure that I making this entry correctly) and would prefer help to improve my additions rather than have them removed on purely technical grounds.
In the interests of full disclosure - I am an acupuncturist but coming from the UK I am somewhat more laissez faire in my attitude to professional 'turf wars' that seem to be much more heated in the US. May 30th 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaprescott ( talk • contribs) 14:44, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Fyslee is trying to add a statement like but unlike acupuncture it isn't necessarily associated with a belief in meridians or acupuncture points.. This seems both tendenditious and incorrect. It is not supported by any source and so I shall continue to remove it. Colonel Warden ( talk) 14:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
References
There is consent to change this article. I placed a new link to the ashi points wiki page. Ashi needling has been around for thousands of years. Just because someone puts a little science behind it does not change the technique, what it is trying to accomplish, or it's origin. Let's be realistic here. trying to dupe folks into believing that dry needling is somehow different than acupuncture is simply rediculous. the only thing that is really different is that, in many states (in the US), you need >3000 hours of training to be licensed to perform acupuncture, but if you are a chiropractor, you only need a 100hour certification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flobmonster ( talk • contribs) 07:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Meridians are based on anatomical relationships, as are many acupoints. ashi points are tender points. they can refer or not. your source for dry needling that I removed is unsubstantiated and written by a chiropractor, which is a conflict of interest. If I were a surgeon and decided I wanted to cut hair under my surgeons license, I can call it razoring and use a razor to do it. It is still a haircut. Hairstylists and barbers have been using razors for a long time. Now it is true that they have different training, but it is easy to see that pretty much no matter how I choose to cut hair, it has been done before. the outcome is the same - shorter hair. in the case of acupuncture and dry needling, the outcome is relief of pain, or THERAPY of any kind. the bit of text I cut is in direct contradiction of the definition that orange marlin provided. [[Flobmonster]] ( talk) 21:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
The idea the two are similar is downright weird. Tattoos and electrolysis are also done with needles- shall we call them acupuncture as well? Having had both, acupuncture barely punctures the skin, while dry needling involves a needle jammed a solid inch into a muscle. It's like the difference between your grandma patting your shoulder gently and getting worked on for deep tissue massage by a dude who looks like a line backer and pounds the crap out of you. It hurts like a mofo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.48.211.120 ( talk) 05:13, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
I put in a lot of work last year trying to source this page and edit it to make it neutral. I don't much appreciate the recent POV-warring over whether dry needling is the same as acupuncture or not. Please stop asserting personal opinions and start using secondary reliable sources as the basis for your edits. Stop changing sourced text to read differently, that gives the false impression that the new wording derives from the source rather than being the personal opinion of the editor. Fences& Windows 19:04, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
It is actually not personal opinion given the fact that several state PT and Chiropractic Boards have ruled that dry needling is NOT the same thing as acupuncture and that it is under the scope of practice for PTs and Chiropractors. The very "controversy" had to do with accupuncturists trying to stop them from suceeding. And what I wrote was not opinion but a short version of the what the OBCE and thd Oregon Attorney General wrote in their request for reconsideration (which is not personal but offical state legal opinion.) Compchiro ( talk) 19:27, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
The acupuncture / dry needling issue is a major issue surrounding this subject. There should be a more accurate statement in the lead rather than the endorsement that "the rationale is different" - Acupuncturists use trigger point and motor point needling as well as "A shi" needling of painful spots in the muscle, so there is nothing PTs and Chiros do that L.Ac's don't do. Acupuncturists spend 3500 hours training to practice, including 165 just on needling technique and hundreds on orthopedic assessment, physical exam, etc. Dry needling is not just "similar" to acupuncture, it is vastly inferior. Herbxue ( talk) 16:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
It is just a matter of opinion that MTrPDN is "inferior" to acupuncture let alone "vastly inferior". There is no proof to substantiate that claim. And the so-called controversy is not relevant to the entire subject. PTs and Chiros often spend just as much time in training as acupuncturists do (and not all L Acs have 3500 hours of training.) The simple fact is that the assertion that dry needling is the same as or a subset of acupuncture is a falsehood. (
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Dry needling. Please take a moment to review
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The following is almost all unsourced and was moved here per WP:PRESERVE. Per WP:BURDEN please do not restore without finding independent, reliable sources, checking the content against them, and citing them, and ensuring that this content has appropriate WP:WEIGHT in the article overall.
This section needs additional citations for
verification. (September 2016) |
Dry needling is taught to and practiced around the world by some Doctors of Medicine and Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine and physical therapists, as well as alternative medicine practitioners such as Acupuncturists, Chiropractors, Naturopathss. citation needed When practiced by a scientific medicine practitioner, it is typically part of integrative medicine and is currently not recommended within the standard of care for medical treatment of pain within the United States.
In the United States of America, dry needling and acupuncture are included in the scope of practice of Doctors of Medicine, Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine, acupuncturists, and in some states chiropractors and naturopaths. Most states allow chiropractors to practice dry needling if needle use (including but not limited to acupuncture) was already included their scope of practice in that state. Some of these states and others have a rule specifically in favor of Chiropractic using dry needling techniques. Other states have ruled that chiropractors cannot practice dry needling. Many states allow physical therapists to perform dry needling, but not acupuncture.
The largest growth in practitioners of dry needling, as a specific technique, in recent years has been among physical therapists. When the Physical Therapy Boards of many states declared that dry needling was already included in their scope of practice, many states had no regulation of dry needling as distinct from acupuncture or trigger point injections allowed by Physicians. Many states have reviewed this stance and allowed Physical Therapists to continue the practice, some have prohibited this technique, and some still have no regulation.
Physical therapists practice in many countries, including South Africa, India, Bangladesh, the Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland, Canada, Chile, Ireland, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand.
In the United States of America, physical therapists in most states perform the technique. [1] Physical therapists are prohibited from penetrating the skin or specifically from practicing dry needling in California, Hawaii, New York, and Florida, though many states have no regulations on dry needling. The Oregon Board of Appeals ruled in January 2014 that the Oregon Board of Chiropractic Examiners did not have the statutory right to determine this in their scope of practice. But the Court made no ruling that chiropractors do not have the training needed to perform dry needling. [2] Additionally, chiropractors are legally allowed to practice dry needling in many US states, as well as in many countries. citation needed There are however no established guidelines for the frequency a patient can receive dry needling for a specific location. Therefore, more research is needed to develop a set of safety guidelines.
References
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-- Jytdog ( talk) 02:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Several of the references - since removed - were to pages of the Federal Register dealing with regulation of medical devices, having nothing to do with the text supposedly being supported by those references. Text left intact, but now needs valid references. David notMD ( talk) 11:28, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
This paragraph was removed from the Efficacy section because the ref - a 2014 review - did not match the text content, which identified a 2017 systematic revuew. Consider returning to article in some form if correct ref can be located. David notMD ( talk) 13:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
A 2017 systematic review on dry needling effectiveness over a wide range of body regions [1] reported positive impacts from dry needling on a wide array of body regions. The aim of this review was to determine how effective trigger point dry needling was based on high-quality randomized control trials for all body areas rather than a specific location. After quality control, the researchers collated 19 studies that met inclusion criteria for this review. This systematic review concluded trigger point dry needling to be an effective treatment for pain associated with trigger points along the whole body; the method is claimed by Boyles et al. that more effective than electrical nerve stimulation and stretching, and trigger point dry needling to be at least as effective as manual trigger point release. Trigger point dry needling was deemed effective in the temporomandibular joint, cervical spine and shoulder, lumbar spine, and lower extremities. The systematic review concludes that future studies should isolate and test specific interest variables.
References
The opening statement under ‘origin’ is confusing since other documented sources contradicts published wiki information. I’ve attempted to update however I have been asked to open a discussion first since it is a major change to what’s currently written. Changing this section would very likely require more editing throughout this section.
This is what I wrote:
“Dry needling” (干针, gan zhen in Chinese pin yin) has been used interchangeably with the term acupuncture (针 zhen in Chinese pin yin) since at least as early as the 19th Century when Western medicine and the hypodermic needle were introduced in China, and the term was created to differentiate acupuncture methods from the use of hypodermic needles in Chinese hospitals.
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4] Subsequently the use of the term “dry needling” amongst acupuncturists, particularly in China, has a broader scope of indications and is not limited to treating only musculoskeletal disorders such as myofascial pain.
[1]
[2]
[4]
I also added a quote from Travell’s book to the second paragraph of the section attributing the recent revival of “dry needling” to Travell. In the quote Travell states acupuncture as performed by acupuncturists is in fact dry needling of trigger points (TrPs). With the added quote from Travell, this paragraph would read as:
More recently, “dry needling” is attributed to
Janet G. Travell. In her book, Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: Trigger Point Manual, Travell uses the term "dry needling" to differentiate between two hypodermic needle techniques when performing
trigger point therapy. However, Travell did not elaborate on the details on the techniques of dry needling; the current techniques of dry needling were based on the traditional and western medical acupuncture.
[5] Travell states, “Many practitioners of acupuncture use TrP [trigger point] criteria to locate pain acupuncture points and, in fact, are successfully performing dry needling of TrPs [trigger points] that they speak of as acupuncture therapy.”
[6]
Let’s discuss! Thanks
R.L. Mendez (
talk)
16:01, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
References
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