This article is written in
American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Olivia Rodrigo, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Olivia Rodrigo on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Olivia RodrigoWikipedia:WikiProject Olivia RodrigoTemplate:WikiProject Olivia RodrigoOlivia Rodrigo articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
From what’s currently in the article, only one critic has compared this song to Swift and Lorde. This does not call for inclusion of pictures that take up more space than the comparison itself -
WP:UNDUE. It’s preferable to opt for pictures of people involved in the song's creation instead.—NØ18:32, 10 January 2021 (UTC)reply
(stylized in all lowercase)
Is it stylized in all lowercase? Where? Why is it not written in this way anywhere in the article e.g. in "Commercial Performance" section. The title should be represented as it is?
Telling it in lead is enough. "feels awkward" is not a valid reason. The same thing has been adapted for ALL music articles. Drivers License is not special. If you're not familiar with what Wikipedia says about stylizations, read
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music.
BawinV (
talk)
08:18, 6 February 2021 (UTC)reply
MOS:IMAGE RELEVANCE
We do not simply decorate articles with images.
MOS:IMAGE RELEVANCE states "Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative." While "a dozen publications have reported this" we do not need to see images of two artists to understand the concept. The prose are sufficient.
Walter Görlitz (
talk)
17:39, 20 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Just to be clear, we do not need images of the two people who were being compared to understand that reviewers were comparing them to these performers' music.
Walter Görlitz (
talk)
20:16, 20 January 2021 (UTC)reply
That's the point: they are not relevant in any way. Too many pop music articles have unrelated articles. If the images were showing the similarities in the music, lyrics or something that the reviews commented on, rather than eye candy of the people who made it, it would be appropriate. It's quite normal to remove images that are not relevant or only partially relevant to the subject.
Walter Görlitz (
talk)
04:20, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The reviews are all talking about how elements of the song, such as the production style, storytelling-based lyricism, her vocal delivery, the bridge breakdown etc are similar to that of Lorde and Swift, which is indeed relevant to the subject, not just partially. I don't know how that's eye candy.
BawinV (
talk)
04:29, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I agree. I don't see how image illustration of a topical subject is considered "unrelated". A similar phenomenon would be, for instance, let's take a public figure,
Florence Pugh. Pugh has three photographs of herself on her page, even though just one would suffice for BLP to let the reader know what she looked like, as she hasn't aged over the span of a few years; but she has one for each sect of her career, which remain related to the text as they depict her in events and projects mentioned in the body of the article. If that makes sense, I feel like this is similar - it helps illustrate clarity without having the reader themselves having to click on other pages.--
Bettydaisies (
talk)
04:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I don't see how Walter Görlitz's point is hard to understand. The images of Lorde and Taylor Swift are not relevant here since the comparisons are between musical elements, not looks. The images would be relevant if a critic commented that Rodrigo physically looks like them in the music video. The only media that will relevantly illustrate the comparisons here are samples of the songs in question.--NØ05:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, and that's fine, but plenty of people recall artists by their distinctive appearances/looks rather than by name. It's not out of bounds or irrelevant to put a face to one for recognition purposes, and has been done on multiple other pages. Also, the above section reasons that the pictures shouldn't be included for the sake of weight, which has now been disputed. --
Bettydaisies (
talk)
07:36, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Displaying actual stylization in lead
From what I can tell, the title of the song is styled "drivers license" on the official
YouTube video and the streaming service
Spotify, though reputable sources like
New York Times and
Rolling Stone use "Drivers License" like the article.
I think including the official style (with sources) in the lead would be easier to see visually for readers and be faithful to the actual song; there have also been other edits and comments here with confusion about it. My initial edit got reverted, so I thought I'd post here.
Current:
"Drivers License" (stylized in
all lowercase) is the debut
Proposal:
"Drivers License" (styled drivers license) is the debut
I concur. The page is disamguated enough to ensure no confusion to readers. It’s the exact same word stated twice, I’m sure the masses won’t need that much clarification.--
Bettydaisies (
talk)
08:17, 6 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Excuse me? You blatantly refuse to follow guidelines laid down by Wikipedia. There are three replies to you above; read them.
BawinV (
talk)
03:59, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BawinV: My apologies if phrasing came across as combative; wasn't my intent. Just proposing what I thought would be an improvement, but we all have different perspectives and input and that's totally fine.
I was unable to find what you were referring to in the MOS though, could you point me to the right section? I also wasn't sure why the citation was removed (could have been an honest mistake).
Look at
Thank U, Next,
Me!, and
Beyoncé (album); and then look at
Homecoming: The Live Album,
How I'm Feeling, and
Damn. What do you observe? In case of titles with only one stylization, the type of stylization is stated in parentheses. In case of titles with multiple stylizations (such as capitalization changes, decorative characters, or superscripting), representing the actual stylization is adopted because it's easier than stating all the stylizations. This is the general norm. "Drivers License" has only one stylization, therefore it's feasible to use "stylized in all lowercase" just like in the case of every other song on Wikipedia. About your "citation", we don't need require it since the title's lowercase stylization is already noted in the Tidal source found in Credits and Personnel section of the song's article. Regards.
BawinV (
talk)
08:57, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BawinV: Again, the style is fine. It's good that there is a source for the Credits and Personnel section; however, I really think an inline citation to a reliable source should be kept next to the statement, per
WP:VER.
Fredlesaltique (
talk)
12:33, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
No, that is unnecessary. It's the lead sentence. It's sourced in the body, which is enough according to
WP:VER. And again, look at the music articles I gave you, do they cite sources next to the song title? No. It simply clutters the lead and is just plain silly. Read some
featured articles in Songs domain to learn how Song articles written.
BawinV (
talk)
13:05, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Opening Paragraph - 'Influences'
I think Lana Del Rey should be mentioned considering Taylor Swift (Esp. her music from last year) was virtually based on Lana's music, lyrics & vocal style. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
154.159.96.59 (
talk)
15:33, 19 February 2021 (UTC)reply
IP(s) being disruptive by changing a specific name
In the section "Commentary and impact" appears the following:
The New York Times writer Joe Coscarelli wrote that the song was spurred not only by its quality, but also the gossips surrounding it, paired with the label's marketing plan, and support from celebrities like Swift and
Charli D'Amelio. He noted the autobiographical song bolstered tabloids and listeners to "piece together its real-life parallels", while TikTok videos lead to social media posts, "which led to streams, which led to news articles, and back around again", generating an "unbeatable" feedback loop. Coscarelli added that, similar to
Britney Spears,
Justin Timberlake,
Christina Aguilera,
Miley Cyrus,
Demi Lovato, and
Selena Gomez, Rodrigo took "her experiences within the Disney machine and attempted to translate them for a broader, more adult audience".[1]
An IP (or group of IPs) has several times replaced the name Demi Lovato with
Bridgit Mendler with no explanation ... and despite this being reverted back to Lovato, I have a feeling they will continue this disruption ad nauseam. My question is simply (without my needing to register an account at The New York Times): Is Mendler mentioned at all in the context of what is stated above?
MPFitz1968 (
talk)
07:33, 2 March 2021 (UTC)reply
OK, I think I can answer my own question, seeing that I just had full access to the article (might be my only freely accessible one for the month at the NYT, not sure), and the answer is no.
MPFitz1968 (
talk)
07:41, 2 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 1 May 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Strong Oppose, a pop song recently released for the 15-25 year olds in America that many (especially us older ones) have never heard of vs a concept that practically every English speaker knows about. In a couple of years the song will probably be forgotten, like most pop songs. Stepho talk22:23, 1 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I also oppose, but your claims about music are laughably wrong and weren't asked for. All you're doing is making yourself seem too biased and out-of-touch for anybody to take your vote seriously. Drivers License is not an America-centric song. And no song of its caliber has ever been "forgotten in a few years".
Nikki Lee 1999 (
talk)
23:42, 1 May 2021 (UTC)reply
I've got 15-25 year olds living in my house and I listen to their music. Some is good, some is drivel - about the same proportion as when I was that age. Even the best songs go way down in popularity by next year (although the really good ones do resurface as party playlists for the 35-55 demographic). History repeats. Stepho talk00:00, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I can't ever see the song overtaking the concept of a driving license as primary topic.--NØ06:58, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose as pure recentism. The physical license allowing people to drive is something that has been prevalent for many years (long before Olivia Rodrigo was even born) and is so ingrained into society that it won't fade from common knowledge anytime soon. An accidental typo (she's mentioned that this track was intended to have an apostrophe) isn't nearly enough to distinguish it from the other concept, no matter how popular the song has become. People can easily forget the apostrophe and refer to a license they own, lost, or are aiming to obtain.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
13:52, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose. People type without apostrophes all the time; directing to the song would be confusing and misleading. It's not the primary topic.
Heartfox (
talk)
20:11, 2 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Note: I think people have confused my intentions with this suggested move, the target I was suggesting is of an alternate spelling, grammar, and capitalisation. That, and an argument could be made that it's also
unnecessary disambiguation. This would certainly be the primary topic for this spelling, grammar, and capitalisation, and I'm sure page views would reflect that.
Sean Stephens (
talk)
00:05, 3 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose as I do not think the song is enough of a primary topic over the main article on driver's licenses. I agree with the above oppose comments and their rationales so I will not completely repeat that to avoid unnecessary repetition.
Aoba47 (
talk)
01:56, 3 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Should this discussion be closed early as per
WP:SNOW? It's clear that consensus is to not move for a variety of reasons, and I don't see why we need to put this snowball through five more days of hell when it is already melting at an alarming rate. Thoughts? D🐶ggy54321(
let's chat!)12:44, 3 May 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Olivia Rodrigo has an RFC over whether Rodrigo should be called a singer-songwriter in the article, instead of a singer and a songwriter. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.
BawinV (
talk)
14:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)reply
"Impact and Legacy" for a one year old song? Really?
While the information in the section "Impact and Legacy" is coherent and well-sourced, almost all of it would be better placed under "Reception" rather than having its own section. It doesn't describe any impact it might have had (presumably because it's too new to have had any lasting impact), and it certainly doesn't describe any kind of legacy, which makes sense given that it's a new song. Silly barely begins to describe it.
68.60.202.174 (
talk)
22:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)reply