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The article is in good shape, but it has a few issues that will keep it from attaining FA. For example, the article states that Deus Ex is a FPS/RPG, while Warren Spector had this to say in the game's Game Developer Magazine post-mortem:
"Conceptually, Deus Ex is a genre-busting game (which really endeared us to the marketing guys) -- part immersive simulation, part role-playing game, part first-person shooter, part adventure game."
He then breaks it down with the following:
"It's an immersive simulation game in that you are made to feel you're actually in the game world with as little as possible getting in the way of the experience of "being there." Ideally, nothing reminds you that you're just playing a game -- not interface, not your character's back-story or capabilities, not game systems, nothing. It's all about how you interact with a relatively complex environment in ways that you find interesting (rather than in ways the developers think are interesting), and in ways that move you closer to accomplishing your goals (not the developers' goals).
It's a role-playing game in that you play a role and make character development choices that ensure that you end up with a unique alter ego. You make your way through a variety of minute-to-minute gameplay experiences (which add up to a story) in a manner that grows naturally out of the unique aspects of your character. Every game system is designed to differentiate one player-character from another, and to allow players to make decisions that reflect their own biases and express character differences in obvious ways in the game world.
It's a first-person shooter because the action unfolds in real time, seen through the virtual eyes of your alter ego in the game world. Your reflexes and skill play an important part in determining your success in combat. However, unlike the typical FPS, Deus Ex doesn't force you to shoot every virtual thing that moves. Also unlike the average FPS, in which gameplay is limited to pulling a virtual trigger, finding blue keys to open blue doors and jumping to reach seemingly inaccessible locations, Deus Ex offers players a wide range of gameplay options.
And finally, Deus Ex is like adventure games in that it's story-driven, linear in narrative structure, and involves character interaction and item accumulation to advance the plot. However, unlike most adventure games (in which you spend the bulk of your time solving clever puzzles in a search for the next static, but very pretty, screen), Deus Ex asks players to determine how they will solve game problems and forces them to deal with the consequences of their choices."
I've worked on articles with this problem before ( System Shock, Deus Ex: Invisible War), and what I did to avoid the issue was to simply call them "first-person" games. In the case of Invisible War, I set one of the genres as "multiple", with a link to the article's Gameplay section, which broke down the elements. I think that could work here, but I won't make any edits regarding it until we can come to an agreement.
Another issue is the abundance of iffy material, like this:
"When the player engages in combat the game tends to reward a tactical approach. As the player will often encounter enemies in groups, the use of cover, strafing, and "hit-and-run" tactics becomes important.
Stuff like this also runs the risk of being original research, unless there's a source out there to back this up. The gameplay section, in particular, has problems with this. Another problem is the sheer size of it--it's possibly the biggest I've ever seen, which will not go over well in FAC. A good way to eliminate these issues is to find source material--like a manual, for example--, and only type down what is covered in it. It's how I wrote the gameplay sections for System Shock and Invisible War. The reference point to use for a gameplay section is easily The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. It is, simply put, the best I've ever seen. I tried to model Invisible War's after it, with little success.
Moving on, I'm going to put this as simply as possible: the plot section is far, far too big to make it through FAC. In fact, it's around 500 words longer than the titanic Final Fantasy VII plot section, which [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy VII |barely survived FAC]], despite being incredibly well done (at the time; the article seems to have aged poorly). It needs to be trimmed down until it covers only the most important points, or we're never going to get this article to FA. The setting section is pretty good, but it needs citations and a more out-of-universe perspective. Morrowind, again, is the best place to look when trying to find inspiration.
The the Fiction subheading in the Allusions section is a bit much. Going against Wikipedia rules, it's basically an indiscriminate collection of information, in the style of a trivia section. We could probably lose Fiction entirely, and keep the other two subheadings as they are, or incorporate them both into a Development section, which we can't get to FA without.
The Reception is good, but lacking in magazine material. Where are the scores and quotations from Edge, PC Gamer, Computer Gaming World, Next Generation and Computer and Video Games? Several common FAC denizens, particularly User:hahnchen, are going to eat this article alive unless it covers a broad scope of sources. Too much is made of the GameSpot review, as well.
After these issues are taken care of, the article is going to need a copyedit from multiple users. This is typical, and it's happened to me on every single one of my FAs.
Overall, the article is pretty good, and we could probably get it to FAC within the next two weeks if we work at it. The biggest problem will be finding reference material, as the game is getting on in years, but it shouldn't be as bad as what happened to me with the System Shock article. Enough talk, though. I'm going to go put my nose to the grindstone. JimmyBlackwing 14:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Sweet, I knew you would be a big help on this JimmyBlackwing. In regard to print reviews of the game, I actually have the clippings of the PC Gamer, Computer Gaming World, and Computer Games magazine reviews which came with my copy of Deus Ex with me if you feel they would be preferable.
The "Popular culture" section is essentially the old trivia section rewritten in prose form, so I understand your feelings about it. The thing is since Deus Ex is so rife with outside references, and since they are so widely commented upon in discussion of the game, I think they at least deserve a cursory mention, even if incorporated into other sections.
I agree with you about the length of the story section, it is longer then I would like. The problem is since Deus Ex has such a long and (dare I say) convoluted plot, I think it will be quite difficult to trim it much more than it is now without it being impossible to follow. I was wondering though, If it is as unlikely to pass as you seem to suggest, why this didn't seem to have stopped Chrono Trigger when it was brought up for FAC when its plot section is actually longer.
Thanks again for your help. -- Grandpafootsoldier 04:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
We could remove parts of sentences that aren't essential... for example: "Using a computer beneath the DuClare Château, JC makes contact with the Illuminati leader." that sentence could easily be changed to: "In the DuClare Chateau, JC contacts the Illuminati leader." Sure, it's not much, but if there's tons of sentences like that, it could make a difference. - ZFGokuSSJ1 12:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
I found a couple different articles by the same person that argue for the importance of ethics in Deus Ex. I plan on incorporating one of them into the article, which do you think is the strongest? Consequentially 05:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
ZFGokuSSJ1, why did you revert this addition? You said it was an unnecessary addition, but I completely fail to see how its unnecessary. Its one sentence which briefly alludes to the fact that it has received a Best Game of All Time award...something which is VERY MUCH appropriate to the first few paragraphs. Articles are intended to be tailored mostly towards people who have no clue about the subject matter, and the fact that Deus Ex got the Best Game of All Time award from PC Zone (a not-insignificant achievement) is something that a newbie to Deus Ex would find very relevant. I won't revert it yet, I'll wait to see what you have to say. If you don't reply within a day or so, I'll revert it, I believe the fact's inclusion is warranted. Dhalphir 11:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Deus Ex (abbreviated DX and pronounced as IPA: /ˌdeɪəsʔˈɛks/, day-uss ex) is a cyberpunk-themed first-person shooter/computer role-playing game developed by Ion Storm Inc. and published by Eidos Interactive. Released on June 22, 2000, the game received almost universal critical and industry acclaim, including being crowned Best Game of All Time in a poll carried out by UK gaming magazine PC Zone. [1], and was a frequent candidate for and winner of Game of the Year awards.[2][3][4][5] Dhalphir 01:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey everyone, I've been thinking of adding an audio sample from the theme song for the Soundtrack section. Would it be a good addition? - ZFGokuSSJ1 19:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Just noting that someone will prolly come by and whack half the images; I suggest removing the plot section ones and they are the least essential. David Fuchs ( talk) 00:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Should it be mentioned that this game is now available free through gametap? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.169.112.254 ( talk) 17:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
(Apologies if that has already been discussed - this page has quite a history.) Is the missile that JCD redirects at Area 51 really nuclear as stated in the article? I don't have the game installed at the moment so I can't check all the dialogues referring to it, but it seems unlikely to me that the missile is nuclear given that a) the site is very damaged but far from flattened; there is even still a tower standing, and b) JC picks up no radiations when he goes there straight after the impact. Thermaland 10:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
What you say is probably true, but remember that Deus Ex is both fictional and is supposed to take place in the future, so there are a number of other factors you have take in to account. Since it is supposed to take place 50 odd years in the future, it could be some sort of very small yield nuclear device which hasn't yet been developed (I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the military was planning on developing such a missile to deal with the underground bunkers used by the Taliban in Afghanistan). Also, as I said before, the game map and that photo are of the very edge of a much larger base (remember that according to Jock and others there had been a lot of building going on over the past few years). As for the surviving soldiers, perhaps most of them had been underground when the blast occurred and had only come out a while before you arrived. Power could also possibly have been hooked back up from the main underground bunker. But this isn't really the place to be speculating on this kind of thing anyway. The developers said "nuclear" so we just have to go with that on the page. -- Grandpafootsoldier 05:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
The article states that Deus Ex is an "FPS/RPG"...or it did until I changed it. The fact is that FPS is not a really genre unto itself. FPS is a type of game in the Shooter genre, which is itself a type of game in the Action genre. As such, "FPS/RPG" are really just "Action RPGs". Action RPGs are defined as RPG games where the combat system is in real time, often focusing on skills in reflex action. In essence, a game that combines RPG focus on character building with action gameplay. Deus Ex does just that. FPS is a type of action game focusing on shooting combat (like all shooters). RPGs are games that focus on character creation/building through stats, lvls, etc. (in Deus Ex these are skill points and mods).
Deus Ex is, by and large, an Action RPG. "FPS/RPG" is simply focusing on the type of action gameplay it employs, but the genre it falls under is already an established one: Action RPG. Therealspiffyone ( talk) 15:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
There's a cite tag at the top of the article requesting reference to a sentence suggesting that Deus Ex was one of the top-selling games of 2000. I went searching for it, but everything I've found suggests that Deus Ex tanked commercially, but was more successful on the PlayStation 2 following the critical acclaim it received. I think the sentence is inaccurate and should probably be removed. The Cake is a Lie T / C 11:32, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
There's a significant character in Deus Ex named Jaime Reyes. I noticed there's a comic book character, the Blue Beetle, that has the same name (his "real" name). This character was created after Deus Ex came out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Beetle_(Jaime_Reyes) Don't know if this is a coincidence or not or whether this belongs in this wiki article or that. I'm still learning wiki stuff so don't yell at me if I posted anything wrong.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.227.126.67 ( talk • contribs)
Are composers of Deus Ex credited as Straylight Productions or by their individual names as the article states? -- Aeternus (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
The name of the AI Helios and the merging of JC with it may also be a reference to Euripedes' Medea, Medea appearing at the end of the play in the sun god Helios' chariot (a machine from the gods). Continuing the seam of literature references "O" and "René" from Histoire d'O can be found in conversation in Flat 12 in Paris.
See wikinot "rumor"
If you have to use "may" then it is unsubstantiatable and thus non-encyclopaedic. 12.198.69.132 ( talk) 18:04, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The use of non-free content in this article seems fairly excessive. Are all the files needed? Additionally, the rationales on the image pages are a little weak. This template would be helpful for a start, but a specific explanation of what the images show and why they need to be shown would be nice. J Milburn ( talk) 13:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
While digging through the online print archive, I located the following print preview material for this game:
One or more print reviews for this game may also be found in the archive. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 16:13, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
And another source here. ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 16:07, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
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Deus ex machina is "God out of the machine". It isn't used in literature to describe an unsatisfying ending. It is when an author writes themselves and their characters into a corner and using the laws of their universe they created there is no way out or no way to resolve the problem realistically. So authors then use "Deus ex machina" the literary equivalent of God, some majorly powerful person/thing, impossible event or a violation of their universe rules to get the characters out the situation to allow the story to continue to the next plot point. Here is a quote from your link to "deus ex machina".
"A "deus ex machina" (Latin for "god out of the machine") is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object."
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy uses it at the end about the destruction of earth. The Life of Brian uses it to save the main character from a fall to his death. The McGuyver TV series used it all the time, the main character always had just the right stuff available to get him out of a jam. Most writers and critics say it is a sign of a poor writer to have to use/resort to such methods.
Here is how that section should read.
=== Name etymology ===
The title "Deus Ex" is derived from the
Latin expression
deus ex machina, literally meaning "god out of the machine". It is used in drama and literature to describe an outside force that suddenly solves the seemingly unsolvable problem(s) the characters face in an extremely unlikely or impossible way.
Warren Spector, executive producer for Deus Ex, has stated the name was both meant as a reference to the various factions in the game who aspire to god-like powers, as well as a dig at the typical video game plot, which tends to be laden with "deus ex machina" artifices and other poor script writing techniques.
[1]
Tjung ( talk) 04:38, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
who removed the weapons in deus ex section.? it took ages to create that, not to mention all the other wikipedia users who spent time perfecting it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.43.91.89 ( talk) 10:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
But it was all ready there the game guide thing is so people will add info on main things not that you should delete whats there.-- Blood sliver 21:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
fansites generally don't allow you to add such detail yourself, and apperently neither does Wikipedia anymore. Seriously, what harm is it causing? You can't say it's unrelated, it's a huge part of the game. Sometimes I think this site would be much better without people deleting stuff because they don't think it's "necessary" to the site. This site itself is not necessary. It's made to let people spread information as long as they can prove it. If someone makes a weapon section with good citations, what's the big deal? I'll tell you what the big deal is, people wanting to be internet cops. Don't have control over their own lives so they have to enforce sites like wikipedia. It's about people spreading information, and all we do is censors each other. People blame the government for that kind of stuff, but it's just humanity. that's just the way we act. Sick. 64.119.57.59 ( talk) 05:18, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
This article may want to mention the emergent gameplay in the game. The Emergent gameplay article mentions:
In games with complex physics and flexible object interaction it may be possible to complete in-game problems using solutions that the game designers did not foresee. Deus Ex is often cited as a game responsible for promoting the idea of emergent gameplay, [2] with players developing interesting solutions such as using wall-mounted mines as pitons for climbing walls.
Mathiastck ( talk) 19:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, that trick is from Half-Life. I've seen speedruns made long before DX where they used tripmines to climb barriers.
72.92.236.229 ( talk) 19:30, 27 October 2008 (UTC) DE was made before half life 2 and I'm pretty sure before the first also. It would be like crediting Halo for making a stylized FPS even though Doom came out first.Also half life one didn't have a physics system like that, 2 did it to mimic (and improve upon) the one in DE. 64.119.57.59 ( talk) 05:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
So I know Warren Spector himself said that this game is an "immersive simulation game" beacause "Ideally, nothing reminds you that you're just playing a game -- not interface, not your character's back-story or capabilities, not game systems, nothing," but does anyone else think the game itself blatantly contradicts that?
Dialog boxes pop up to inform you that you have been awarded skill points for completing certain tasks. The skill points have no effect until you spend them to upgrade various abilities in a discrete, three-level system. A log message is shown every time you interact with something. You manage inventory all of the time, etc.
Deus Ex is one of my top 3 favorite games, but it is very game-ish. Calling an immersive simulation game, even in December of 2000, seems like a stretch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.107.0.73 ( talk) 21:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree. I love DE, I'm still playing it but it is only imersive in a few parts. It's one of those games that always has that clunky Hud and even picking up things in the world is fun but somehow feels like using a weak "grabber gun" all in all. Maybe something as simple as no hud and simply seeing your hands picking up and holding items would change this. As much as people complain about third person style for number 3, I think it may make the game completely imersive if done right. I would love to see JC Denton or whoever actually pick up a box and drop it to climb up whatever to get to wherever...you see my point. 64.119.57.59 ( talk) 05:34, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/making-deus-ex - I couldn't do it myself, because some genius locked the article. So someone else has to do it now. -- 194.145.185.229 ( talk) 13:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
It might be fine to mention that there are mods released for the game (as this speaks to the game's longevity and popularity) but I don't think it's appropriate to use the main article to advertise individual mods nor do I necessarily think that we need an entire separate section devoted to mods (yes this game is modded, but it's not exactly a phenomenon in the modding community enough to warrant mention. In other words it has never produced any mods that reached DOTA or Team fortress levels of popularity). The mod section of the article, for example, just seems to be a two paragraph long plug for the Nameless Mod. I don't think we need a separate section on Mods for this game--just mention the fact that it's modded elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.232.42.74 ( talk) 04:11, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Area 51 was not going to be the final level. Should we add this to the article? [1]
If I'm not mistaken, besides being able to choose between killing Lebedev and interrogating him, you can also kill Anna Navarre. Alex Jackson (I'm not sure that's his name, the hacker) then erases that event from the archives so don't get caught, but still Gunther Herman will suspect you of her murder. I played the game some time ago, but I'm pretty sure this was an option. 78.96.206.254 ( talk) 23:37, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
You are correct. This is indeed a solution. 98.226.136.46 ( talk) 22:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC) The first thing I did. Call me a nerd, but I was really into creating a narrative. I thought killing any terrorist I saw (honestly disgusted by the horrible things they did to innocent people, and still feeling the same way every time I play through again) but once you are at that point where a person wants to kill another, helpless person, there is only one "right" thing to do. It's just a video game, but a book is also just a book, doesn't mean I can't enjoy the good guy doing evil things to the obvious bad person. Sorry, just my favorite part of the game. I always label it "turning point" when I save upon entering the plane. 64.119.57.59 ( talk) 05:28, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Steam is only one digital platform Deus Ex is available digitally (a mere Google search brings up at least one). It is not Wikipedia's place to recommend a commercial outlet. It would like be telling you to buy a record on iTunes when it can be bought at Amazon/equivalent. I suggest it be changed to "Digital distribution", but in my experience of changing articles on Wikipedia some retard comes along and removes the edit saying it's wrong, incorrect or against his or her personal agenda. So I'll leave it to you people. - Spence Dan 11/04
Can we put the real meaning for "deus ex", which means "from God"? It has a meaning apart from "Deus Ex Machina". Lacon432 ( talk) 12:47, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Is it relevant to mention the other Eidos games being offered on Steam? It seems out of place. Also, the reference just goes to the Steam news page which seems like a poor reference if that was what was intended:
On March 29, 2007, Valve announced Deus Ex and its sequel would be available for purchase from their Steam service. Among the games announced are several other Eidos franchise titles, including Thief: Deadly Shadows and Tomb Raider.[54] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lifesaglitch ( talk • contribs) 07:56, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
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Warren Spector has recently done a commentary on the game. It is 45 minutes long and can Link. -- Harizotoh9 ( talk) 19:22, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
Broken link. Was already in an archive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.71.73.46 ( talk) 16:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
A link was added that seems well in excess of WP:ELNO guidelines:
The linked page is a simple description of the game, and really adds nothing to the WP article. There are a bunch of Amazon affiliate ad links, though, which isn't really a valid use of WP, and comes perilously close to being spam. I removed it. — UncleBubba ( T @ C ) 22:05, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
The two current fair use images aren't doing anything for me (one of the multiple "choices" for dealing with a situation, one illustrating in-game text). I don't see how the article is bettered by having these visualized. Even a single shot of the actual gameplay with the HUD and whatnot would be better, in my book. As for possible free use, I'm going to contact Eidos with fingers very crossed—any ideas on how to contact Warren Spector or the other high-profile devs on the project? (The primary intent would be photos of the dev team.) I'm happy to do the emailing—just not sure on how and whom to contact czar ♔ 04:55, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Instead of creating separate headings, I'm going to drop all source-related discussions here where they can be discussed (or not)
I found the old archives, if you were curious why the history cut off at 2007. For some reason they were hidden under the series talk page. I also set up auto-archiving czar ♔ 06:41, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
[2] Has this site been discussed as reliable elsewhere? I didn't spend too long on it, but I couldn't find an editorial policy or anything that would otherwise qualify the site's reliability as more than a usual fansite or blog. czar ♔ 04:46, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Seems like a prettier version of a Trivia section. I say cut it. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 05:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
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