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The death toll has increased to four, as one of the injured children has died, just look
here or
here. It's not my fault that there aren't any English sources yet. (
Lord Gøn (
talk)
15:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC))reply
these reports are wrong, the government confirmed that 2 people died on the scene, and one infant died in the hospital, the reports of 4 people come from french-speaking sources, who may have misunderstood the statement.
Is there a source for that? The article seems to say three are in danger. And the "at least three" will cover any future fluctuations at any rate. --➨♀♂CandlewickeST# :)17:02, 23 January 2009 (UTC)reply
"Ten children, including the two most seriously injured, and two adults underwent surgery and were out of danger, a doctor, Ignace De Meyer, told reporters."
Much better. Perhaps it should be inserted into the article of the location too just in case the place has some future international significance and the image is required again. --➨♀♂CandlewickeST# :)18:31, 24 January 2009 (UTC)reply
A police officer confirmed: “He had his face painted like Heath Ledger playing The Joker.” The attack took place exactly one year and one day after the death of the actor. He used a knife like the Joker did in The Dark Knight. You don't see the connection ?
Hektor (
talk)
12:52, 24 January 2009 (UTC)reply
This is the- inaccurate- opinion/description of the poilce oficer and shouldn't be used as citable fact in the article. That De Gelder's face painting was a Joker reference is mere speculation at this point and should be treated as such.
I do not know what the anonymous user meant. But my view is that there is of course a possible and well-cited connection with The Joker. But the connection with the death of HL (one year and one day) seems far-fetched and is not mentioned in the articles as a motive or trigger.
Sijo Ripa (
talk)
13:05, 24 January 2009 (UTC)reply
The date connection is referenced in
this AFP entry which is unfortunately in French : "Le journal souligne également que la tuerie de Termonde s'est produite précisément un an et un jour après la mort par surdose de Heath Ledger, le 22 janvier 2008." You have similar date coincidences with the
Columbine High School massacre.
Hektor (
talk)
15:08, 24 January 2009 (UTC)reply
For some reason I can't edit this page. Anyway here is what I wanted to share on this, maybe someone else will put it in:
Aside from the almost coincidence of the anniversary of the death of Heath Ledger (a year and a day beforehand), is also the fact that Heath's father is called Kim, and that Gelder is an anagram of Ledger. That the murderer, who several eyewitnesses reported was made up with red hair, a white face and black eyes had a morbid identification with the Joker character (not necessarily with the actor) seems hereby established.
Fbunny (
talk)
11:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Although another section detailing media and fan speculation may be appropriate- seperating the `joker/ledger' stuff from the factual bones of the main article
Killer information
I have not much experience with editing Wikipedia, so I thought I'd bring it up on talk page not to destroy the article on accident.
The killer has been identified by now. His name is Kim De Gelder, a 20 year old male, unemployed and living on his own in a small rented apartment. I don't have an internet source, this was told earlier tonight on Belgian television news. If it's relevant perhaps someone here could edit it in. --
80.200.93.200 (
talk)
20:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)reply
On
this blog a few people have posted who claim to have known the murderer, they all say he was very quiet and withdrawn at school and two report that he had a tendency to chuckle to himself. He appears to have finished high school with a vocational qualification as a pharmacy assistant.
Fbunny (
talk)
11:44, 25 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Main Page?
This article has little to no relevance on a worldwide scale. This is the kind of crap we would see on Fox news. The news mentioned on the main page is usually of at least national or international significance, such as a Presidential election, a military coup, a treaty, whatever. Wikipedia is not (or was not) a scare tabloid with headlines about people murdering infants.
Some guy (
talk)
09:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)reply
It was not just a fox news item, it was mentioned in about every news broadcast around the world, that is why it is mentioned on the main page.
Pevernagie (
talk)
10:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Other murder
There are "strong indications" that Kim De Gelder has also murdered an elderly lady a week before the creche murders. Perhaps we should rename (=move) this page to a "Kim De Gelder" article which would then cover both crimes. A seperate Kim De Gelder page would add little new, so I would prefer to avoid a duplication of articles.
Sijo Ripa (
talk)
12:43, 26 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Is it necessary to do that? The murder of the old lady is not really world shocking news. The world was shocked because somebody went inside a day care center and started murdering infants, not because it was Kim De Gelder who did it.
Pevernagie (
talk)
19:57, 26 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Is it necessary to omit it? Does it *have* to be "really world shocking news"?! I didn't realize we were writing a newspaper; the nursery attack is quickly becoming an important event for crime investigators and criminology.
Flex Flint (
talk)
23:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)reply
I am not sure this individual warrants an article just yet. As I recall, there were similar crimes in
Dunblane, Scotland and in
Beslan, Russia (though the former example is more on point here). In the Dunblane massacre, the lone perpetrator was identified, but is not the subject of an article, as per the BLP subsection on
articles about people notable only for one event. The Russian attack is slightly different, as it was a terrorist action by Chechen separatists and some of the hostage-takers were previously known prior to the attacks. It might be something of an unwritten corollary of the OneEvent guidelines that Wikipedia doesn't create memorials (ie, articles) for these folk. -
Arcayne(cast a spell)03:36, 30 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Good points, and I concur with your reasoning about De Gelder not warranting his own page, but this article is about the event itself. Following that line: if we would purposefully omit the fact that he murdered a fourth person (bordering on certainty, but there is a press stop as of a few days ago), then my question is: are we still being complete?
Flex Flint (
talk)
13:51, 31 January 2009 (UTC)reply
@Pevernagie (translated - "I didn't know it was allowed to check the population register"): I didn't know either, and if I'm not mistaken, it's forbidden to check for other people's information in there. You even have to ask for a permit to watch your own files. So I think Gh78787 is either wrong, doing illegal things, or both.
Flex Flint (
talk)
14:00, 31 January 2009 (UTC)reply
Nsaa, see the banner on top of the article's page: "This article or section may require restructuring to meet Wikipedia's quality standards." See the relevant links therein.
Flex Flint (
talk)
23:13, 27 January 2009 (UTC)reply
WP:Death Assessment Commentary
The article was assessed as C-class, for lack of adequate coverage. The last time any news was added was in 2009; surely the case against the suspect has proceeded since that time. The article needs to be updated.
Boneyard90 (
talk)
07:35, 7 May 2012 (UTC)reply
You'd think so, but it's Belgium. They selected a jury for the trial just today. I have by no means been actively following the case, but I don't believe too much has happened in between. —
WardMuylaert (
talk)
18:05, 19 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Well, I have seen a few interesting bits here and there, even though I didn't follow it too closely, so the article could definitely be improved and expanded a lot. It just seems that nobody cares enough to invest some time in it. I would do it, if I weren't such a lazy bum. (
Thusz (
talk)
18:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC))reply
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