This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
David Miscavige article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 14 February 2011, David Miscavige was linked from Slashdot, a high-traffic website. ( Traffic) All prior and subsequent edits to the article are noted in its revision history. |
![]() | On 1 December 2009, David Miscavige was linked from Slashdot, a high-traffic website. ( Traffic) All prior and subsequent edits to the article are noted in its revision history. |
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change David Miscavige’s title from “Cleric” to “Cult Leader” 2607:FEA8:86A1:EE00:C96C:4D:4AFE:2E16 ( talk) 23:24, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Height is irrelevant information to include in the infobox. This is not normal. Boomer tomb ( talk) 03:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Why is archive 4 from 2014 to 2021, and archive 5 from 2017 to 2018? They shouldn't overlap. They should be in chronological order. Boomer tomb ( talk) 03:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
@ Grorp: I just crossed-checked the references for "Captain of the Sea Org":
"C.O.B." (from Westbrook's book) is the only one that we can really be sure of. I'd prefer to prioritize academic sources such as Westbrook's book; these types of sources fit better with Wikipedia's NPOV and RS guidelines.
Since we can't agree on what Miscavige's currently used titles actually are, I'd suggest writing about this in a section below after sufficient research is done, but not in the introductory paragraph since it's contested. We're not even sure about whether the sources are backed by sufficient research.
Per MOS:LEAD, we are supposed to provide an accessible overview of the topic. If we have doubts about WP:V or WP:POV, then that shouldn't go in the lead section.
As a result, I've decided to put just "C.O.B." in the lead section for now. Please make discussions in the talk page, and I'm sure we can work together to improve this article.
Thanks for your work on Scientology articles by the way. I'm not opposing your edits per se, but am simply suggesting that we should collaborate in talk pages rather than making unexplained edits and reverts without discussing the reasons behind them. DjembeDrums ( talk) 00:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
makes the statement but does not reference anything"), she indeed describes her research for "Chapter 7. DM" starting on page 393 where she extensively lists the interviews and written sources she drew from. The handles "DM" and "COB", and the title of Captain are not controversial or contentious. And because the statement "
He is also referred to within the Scientology organization as "DM," "COB" and "Captain of the Sea Org"" is not contentious, there is no reason to expect or require a different standard of reliable source than Wikipedia guidelines recommend. All of the changes were easily verifiable and should not have been reverted. And since you got the first 3 things wrong (Scobee, Reitman, and Westbrook), I am restoring the earlier version. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 05:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
You might not find reference to "DM" in "scholarly sources" because they tend to be more formal. Based on what I read, "DM" is how he was referred to within Scientology, and is no different than calling L. Ron Hubbard "LRH". It is common in Scientology to use initials for things. Speaking of formal writing, you don't find "DM" in Rinder's book, but he uses it liberally in his online blog ( one example).
One of Miscavige's former superiors had this to say of "DM" as he is usually known:...
DM: David Miscavige, The ecclesiastical leader of Scientology since 1987.
There was DM (David Miscavige) and...( Uploaded image of page 165)
Through these efforts, DM, as Miscavige was called, soon...( Uploaded image of page 128)
Born April 30, 1960 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His current position is Chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Center (COB RTC), which he assumed in 1987, some months after Hubbard's death. Among Scientologists, David is often referred to simply as his initials "DM" or "COB".( Uploaded image of page 57)
This is obviously a rank. In many organizations, including the US Navy, a person may be referred to as captain if he is in charge of a ship even if he has not actually attained the rank of captain. (See Commander (United States) § Naval and lead paragraph of Captain (United States O-6).) Hubbard patterned his Sea Org after the US Navy. Compare this photo of CAPTAIN Miscavige to US Naval Captain insignia.
David Miscavige, by this time both a captain in the Sea Org and the head of the Religious Technology Center...
Miscavige's coup was now nearly complete. He had dubbed himself Captain of the Sea Organization and created two powerful new entities: the aforementioned RTC, which controlled and licensed L. Ron Hubbard's works, and Author Services, Inc. (ASI), which handled the proceeds.( Uploaded image of page 139)
The founder had elevated [the Broekers] to "loyal officer" status, a higher rank than Miscavige, a captain.
Note that it is "COB" and not ever C.O.B.! Even Westbrook 2019 pg141 uses "COB" as a handle for the man (not just a post title). "COB" (pronounced see-oh-bee) is how the man is referred to; it is not simply a position title, like calling someone "boss" or "super"; there's an element of their position, but it refers to the person themself.
COB: Staff often refer to Miscavige as COB. He is Chairman of the Board for the Religious Technology Center, the trademark-holding body of Scientology.
Miscavige had since assumed the post of COB RTC or Chairman of the Board of the Religious Technology Centre the highest ecclesiastical authority in the Church of Scientology. (p.148) When I came back down a security guard, a Cherokee Indian, told me: "COB was here. You blocked his parking space." (p.157) I often saw the Chairman of the Board (COB), David Miscavige, swishing in from Ivar Avenue with his usual entourage of about twenty people. (p.190)
From this point forward, everyone in the Church referred to him as COB, but to me, he was just Uncle Dave.
When at ASI, Miscavige had called himself chairman of the board; he simply transferred his title to RTC to become Chairman of the Board RTC or COB RTC, often shortened to just COB.( Uploaded image of page 122)
Born April 30, 1960 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His current position is Chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Center (COB RTC), which he assumed in 1987, some months after Hubbard's death. Among Scientologists, David is often referred to simply as his initials "DM" or "COB".( Uploaded image of page 57)
Rathbun continually urged Cruise to call "COB," as Miscavige is known in the church — Chairman of the Board.