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The cremation chamber at Dachau could not keep up with the cremation of 30,000 people over 13 years.
Yet, we are expected to believe the cremation chambers at Auschwitz and other "death camps" cremated 12 million in the space of 3 years?
I find that almost hysterical, if it weren't so sad.
You can not cremate bodies 24/7, 52 weeks a year in an oven. The actual German written records (not a TV show)for cremating a body at Auschwitz is 1 to 1 & half hours per body- more if more bodies are added. Secondly, the ovens needed to be cleaned which took approx. 1/6 of the time. Thirdly, the liners of the ovens had to be replaced periodically, @ every 20 days use, & this was a major operation causing considerable downtime & lastly there was normal repairs to the ovens. Turns out the Auschwitz maximum 17 ovens were only cremating bodies 50% of the time (doesn't include individual construction time for each oven - only from the oven's operational date). Another check is to compare the actual fuel & maintenance supply records to confirm the figures.
Your argument doesn't pan out - if Dachau couldn't do 30,000 then 12,000,000 would take take 400 ovens +- - but certainly more than they had available no matter how you work the numbers. Secondly Dachau had 13 years - the Polish camps had months - couple of years at most. Ouch
159.105.80.141
18:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
RE:above mentions lime to dispose of the bodies - actually lime is anti-microbial - it preserves the bodies ( helps keep down the smell of decomposition ). Any pits would be great forensic sites.
159.105.80.141 (
talk)
11:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
From Friedrich Paul Berg's website http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcdelouse.html:
TODAY AT THE FORMER German concentration camp at Dachau, it is no longer claimed that Jews or anyone else were ever killed in the gas chamber there. In the room that is supposedly a gas chamber, one can clearly read a sign written by the museum authorities in five languages which says, "THE GAS CHAMBER disguised as a 'shower room'-never used as a gas chamber." Although the room was completed in 1942, it was never used for its intended purpose-presumably, it was used for other purposes; perhaps it was used as a shower room after all.
At the western end of the crematorium building which houses the so-called gas chamber "disguised as a shower room," one can today see and walk through four delousing chambers which were used to fumigate clothing.2 The only explanation regarding these chambers is a sign above them, also in five languages, which simply says "Fumigation cubicles" in English and Desinfektionskammern in German. There is no mention anywhere within the camp of the important fact that these chambers used Zyklon-B to fumigate clothing as well as other articles placed within the chambers.
The "shower room" is not a gas chamber at all, but the so-called "fumigation cubicles" are gas chambers. Moreover, the "fumigation cubicles " are extremely well-designed gas chambers which represented, and may still represent, the state of the art in gas chamber design. They were the product of more than 20 years of research and development into the application of hydrocyanic acid (often referred to simply as cyanide) for the extermination of vermin. This is clearly shown by the extensive German technical literature from the end of World War I through World War II on this subject.
Indeed, the fumigation chambers were not used for extermination of human beings at Dachau. Proskauer 14:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles should not depend on primary sources but rather on reliable secondary sources who have made careful use of the primary-source material. Most primary-source material requires training to use correctly, especially on historical topics.
The citations to these sources should be provided in the article? Proskauer 06:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
How and who decided that after all these years of propaganda that Dachau didn't have gas chambers after all? Is there a source or link as to how the plaque was changed out of the blue?
A camp that never had gas chambers - except for delousing - is slyly portrayed as one that did. Are you calling all the pro-Holocaust historians a bunch of liars? I believe they have conceded that Dauchau was not an extermination camp.
One reliable source - used by this article and many others as an approved site - still says gas chambers at Dachau. Such a good story - they have photos too - that they can't give it up, even if everyone knows it isn't true. How does scrapbookpages keep its good standing with wiki?
159.105.80.141
19:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Dr Franciszek Blaha was the only witness who every testified about gas chambers at Dachau - experimental. Dr Blaha also testified to skinning - duress I hope - to make slippers, pants, other clothing ( he didn't make lampshades, he was more original ). Why don't we feature Blaha - our only witness? If you want a gas chamber, he is your man - actually your only man.
159.105.80.141
19:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Why is information on the Liberation of this camp being removed. The mission of Wikipedia is to "Provide information" not to gloss over horrible peices of history. To present one side as 'Good', and one side as 'evil' is an oversimplification. The execution of unarmmed POWs is historicaly significant, What is the justification for excluding this? Isn't the true horror of the Holocaust the way that seemingly 'normal' people were made to do such acts of evil; the liberation story is the ultimate and final example of this.
The Americans found 32,000 prisoners, dying slowly and crammed 1600 to each of 200 barracks, which had been designed to house 250 people each. The US troops also found 39 railroad cars, each filled with one hundred or more corpses.
Minor mathematical error- 1600 x 200 = 320,000 not 32,000. Either the number per barrack is wrong, the number of barracks is wrong, or the total population of the camp is wrong.
Would someone please check an authoritative source and correct?
Except for those that were sick, the rest looked anything but "dying". The photos of them killing German prisoners look like pretty healthy bloks.
I have read that the dead in the railroad cars had been strafed by US fighter planes. 159.105.80.141 18:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a typo or anything: the name Oskar Müller occurs twice in the article, once as the last head of the camp, and later as a communist held at the camp. func (talk) 01:29, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Oskar Müller was the inmate that the Americans put in charge of the camp after liberation. There are documents in the Humaities.org link related to him, follow the external links section.
This isn't noteworthy enough to be in the article by a long shot, but in case you're ever going to have a section with literature et cetera on the Dachau concentration camp, Captain Beefheart once made a song about it called Dachau Blues. Its lyrics can be found here: [1] -- Michiel Sikma 17:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Should the children of Archduke Franz Ferdinand also be included as notable prisoners? It is, to many, quite surprising that Austrian nobility was sent to concentration camps.-- 85.49.234.93 22:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
There is no mention of the fact that Dachau was the first of the camps where the Nazis conducted "scientific" experiments on homosexuals, in order to carry out Himmler's policy of "eradicating" the "vice". I remember this vividly coming across when I visited the camp's exhibition centre. [2], [3], [4]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dermod ( talk • contribs) 05:05, 17 February 2006 UTC.
I can't see anything that notes Dachau acted as the crematorium for the Allies of noteable Nazi's post the Nuremberg trials? High Nazi's such as Jodl were cremated at Dachau - Rgds, Trident13 14:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
This might be a good lead as to how long it took Germans to cremate a body - some clerk probably wrote all this down in great gory detail. Run quick and destroy the record - wait look at it first.
I've added some images from my most recent vacation to Germany and Dachau. I feel they added some a more rounded look at the highlights of the camp. j_lechem@msn.com 17:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I've been fiddling with ways to distribute the current crop of images around the article, and I have come to the conclusion that there are simply too many pictures. In particular, I don't think that Image:Dachau-001.JPG or Image:Dachau-040.jpg are really contributing much of anything to the article itself. Would anyone object if I were to remove these two, and spread the others a little more evenly around the article? Maybe they could be moved to a "more images" gallery at the bottom of the page. Microtonal 23:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
The information in this article dovetails with a biography of Patton which I read 40+ years ago -- Ancheta Wis 10:09, 21 March 2006 (UTC):
Committed suicide for what reason? Maybe all their family was dead from the war - this assumes a lot ( it actually assumes they felt bad about Jews being dead - I thought the whole message was that the Germans hated the Jews, I am getting confused by the back and forth, pick a stance and stay there.
Is there a formal definition of the difference between these two? The Wikipedia "Extermination camp" entry does NOT list Dachau. It says there were six camps, all in Poland.
-- JohnFlaherty 08:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay, then should the "Extermination camp" entry be edited to reflect Dachau? Take a look at it. It says there were only six camps, all in Poland.-- JohnFlaherty 11:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Anybody?-- JohnFlaherty 12:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
This is my third pimping of Britannica in 3 edits but anyway; it has Dachau as a concentration camp, as distinct from being an extermination camp, to which (it implies specifically for the purpose of extermination) Jewish prisoners were sent from Dachau. There seems a clear distinction there: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9028484 -- Hakluyt bean
Okay. Thanks. I just wanted to make sure.-- JohnFlaherty 20:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC) Some years back it was begrudging admitted that there had been no gas chambers on German soil. By magic the whole operation moved to Poland overnight. Next it will be...., hold it there is no next - in Poland we stand and fight.
From the article:
This doesn't appear to be accurate. See Britannica: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9028484 -
The word "killed" is probably not totally correct. Execution and physical oppression would mean "killed" but probably any research would have disease as the main culprit.
Britannica, http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9028484 (same link as above):
From the official Dachau Memorial site: http://www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/englisch/frame/geschichte.htm
The article seems to gloss over this and leaves the impression that with the exception of Jewish prisoners and (possibly?) other religious prisoners the composition of the camp was fairly random. By comparison from the article:
Gosh I don't like this 200,000 number. The normal death rate over this period - and add in a typhus epidemic - and 30,000 deaths looks like normal attrition. The Japanese camps in the USA had about the same %. Rats, we need a total rewrite.
Guessing that prisoners were not immortal - lived about 70 years each. Then a city or camp of 200,000 would have natural deaths in the 30,000 range. These prisoners appear to have been safer than if they were Germans living in Berlin.
(Median age, say, 30-40, at most) - are you saying they population was made up of 30 to 40 year olds? The median age for any population is probably near 30-40, but it is the old who die of old age, not the median agers. Probably 200-400 per 100,000 30 to 40 year olds die per year, but about 1400 older people will die each year. Throw in a typhus epidemic and you don't even need a gas chamber - which they didn't have. Does anyone have the deaths in the German civilan population from typhus etc at the end of the war? 159.105.80.103 ( talk) 18:15, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
German Wikipedia has a short article on the Dachaulied, "song of Dachau" written by two prisoners. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachaulied . Anybody care to translate this over to English Wikipedia? Thanks. -- 201.78.233.162 22:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
As alluded to in one of my above posts I think the article's lacking a chronology of events at the camp. Anyone mind if I add one/shuffle the article around? Hakluyt bean 18:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
In spite what the photo says, and so the camp was not "also used for extermination purposes."
http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/
Someone correct this. -- HanzoHattori 17:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?25
A better translation is "Was not in use", which is (purposefully?) ambiguous: Does it mean that it was never used? Does it mean that when the liberating US army arrived, the gas chamber wasn't in use? The answers to both those questions cannot be given, as the original german in that image is similarly obtuse. -- 84.72.122.161 ( talk) 06:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I am an Australian who has been to this particular camp when i was in Munich two months ago.
I paid close attention to all information available at the facility and can say that this camp WAS used for genocide, Dachau featured two crematoriums (which ceased operation due to a coal shortage's in the late 30's and early 40's) mass graves were used as an alternative and one gas chamber, which is not the ones seen in the photo on the bottom right had side of the article it was a single "showering room" that could house 20 people at a time. The prisoners that were killed were killed because they were deemed unfit due to malnutrition hence MURDER. The authorities that govern Dachau today (who have no interest in "flowering up" what took place there) formally recognises 200 moralities over the 3rd Reich era. whist nobody will ever know the TRUE toll, the figures mentioned are quite ridiculous.
Actual Use of the Gas Chambers
It is almost certain that the fumigation or disinfestation chambers were used for their designed purpose. (...) With the new crematorium a gas chamber was also connected. The whole construction of the crematorium with its gas chamber was completed in 1943. It contained an 'undressing room', a 'shower bath', and a 'mortuary'. The showers were metal traps which had no pipelines for a supply of poisonous gas. This gas chamber was never set in action in Dachau. Only the dead were brought to the crematorium for 'burning', no living for 'gassing'. There is also considerable evidence that at least 3,166 prisoners were sent to Hartheim Castle in Linz. Here they were quickly put to death in the small gas chamber originally used to destroy the mentally retarded and handicapped. (...) Having established that the large gas chamber was indeed a homicidal chamber, little other evidence, apart from Rascher's letter, had surfaced to confirm its actual use on human beings. [5] -- HanzoHattori 10:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
An Associated Press reporter and another reporter requested permission from General Linden to go through the camp on an inspection. General Linden consented and offered to accompany the two reporters. Lt. Cowling and one of the guards went through with the General and the two reporters. The major who had been a prisoner provided a guard for the party. The first place the group visited was a large yard in which piles of assorted clothing were stacked. In one pile was shoes, in another pants, and so on. We were then shown a room which looked something similar to a reception room, and off it was another room with the marking "Showers" on it. Actually it was a gas chamber used by the Germans to kill the prisoners. The camp also contained four large ovens in which the bodies were cremated.
Another door with the word showers lead off of this and upon going through this room it appeared to be a shower room but instead of water, gas came out and in two minutes the people were dead. Next we went next door to four large ovens where they cremated the dead. Then we were taken to piles of dead. There were from two to fifty people in a pile all naked, starved and dead. There must have been about 1,000 dead in all.
Almost 100 naked bodies were stacked neatly in the barren room with cement floors (the mortuary). They had come from a room on the left marked "shower bath."
REALLY A GAS CHAMBER
It really was a gas chamber, a low-ceilinged room about 30 feet square. After 15 or 20 persons were inside the doors were firmly sealed and the faucets were turned on and poison gas issued. Then the bodies were hauled into a room separating the gas chamber from the crematorium. There were four ovens with a huge flue leading to a smoke-blackened stack.
Outside this building were tens of thousands of articles of clothing stacked in orderly piles.
Neither the reports by the U.S. Army, Father Hess nor Sack prove conclusively that the homicidal chamber was used to kill people. Until further evidence is discovered, historians will have to conform [comfort? - Eliyahu] themselves with the knowledge that it was technically possible to have murdered human beings with poison gas in that room, and that the room, some 16x16x12ft high, was designed for the exclusive purpose of carrying out such a grim task. This circumstance does not free the perpetrators of their crimes. No matter in what manner the tens of thousands of unfortunate people in Dachau lost their lives, they were murdered as surely as if they had been placed in a gas chamber and asphyxiated with hydrogen cyanide gas. The intentional destruction of human life by whatever means is still murder. It is quite sufficient, for the moment, to demonstrate that the Nazis intended to use a homicidal gas chamber in Dachau, and that they designed, built and equipped such a chamber in the Dachau Concentration Camp.
A liitle note on the construction the gas chamber and second crematoria
The Gas chamber and crematorium (Baracke X)was built just outside the prisoner compound at Dachau but within the area of the SS Kaserne. At Wannsee it was decided that all camps within the system had to have a Gas Kammer and Dachau was certainly no exception. The long, rectangular building was built very close to an existing crematorium, which dates to 1940. Construction of "Baracke X" started in May 1942. The work was largely carried out by Polish priests who who prisoners at Dachau, under the supervision of Kapos Karl Wagner and Fritz Wendel. The priests had been given a short course in building and were joined by one joiner and three qualified bricklayers. By late March-April 1943 the project was completed. I have found no record of whether the construction crew were killed afterwards to conceal the potential of the new building. The above information is derived largely from "That was Dachau" by the Czech survivor Stanislev Zamecnik.(Collection Documents, 2004) Zamecnik is a trained historian and his book is quite matter-of-fact. He was a nurse in the infirmary and as such, saw Dr Rascher on a daily basis. Zamecnik concedes that he cannot prove that Rascher was using the Gas chamber to test combat gasses as part of his medical research but goes on to state that it would be most unlike the SS to at least test the facility.(p 284-290) Taffthedigger ( talk) 20:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
The delegation of Congressmen arrived at Dachau on May 1, 1945 but they were photographed in the gas chamber room on May 3, 1945. In their report, they described the ceiling as being 10 feet high. Most of these men were at least 6 feet tall and the 7.6 ceiling was so low that they could reach up and touch it, so how could they made a mistake on the height of the ceiling? Did they wait two days before going to see the gas chamber, or did they see it on May 1st? If we knew the answers to all these questions, we would know whether there was a gas chamber at Dachau. Geseke too tambien also ( talk) 15:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
"Camp records list 130,000 persons killed in the camp"
??? It is generally agreed to have been about 30,000, though I can't say on what basis. If the camp records listed 130,000, surely this would be common knowledge. Is this a typo? ALu06 13:13, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Changed it today. This was a serious flaw. ALu06
Arolson - Red Cross Tracing - using the German camp records give 31,591 ( or 31,951 depending on who didn't proofread ). The records give 3,752 in the first 7 years of operation. The first 3 months of 1945 had a count of 13,158. After the US army arrived the deaths continued - 2,226+. 2/3rds of the prisoners were Polish Catholics. Most of the deaths appear to be due to evacuting prisoners from Poland who had typhus. The US troops I have read started catching typhus soon. The official Arolson files appear to use the German camp records as the most reliable data source. 159.105.80.63 15:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
My understanding is that many - thousands - of US troops died of typhus in Europe - vaccinations seemed to be only partially effective. 159.105.80.141 ( talk) 20:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)These vaccines were not field tested until Nov,dec 1945 and jan 1946 - I believe the war was over by then. 159.105.80.141 ( talk) 20:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)My dates above are incorrect - these are for Scrub Tyohus, epidemic typhus did have a vaccine for our soldiers in about 1943 - before that we lost many troops, even with the vaccinations we still didi I believe. A Polish researcher also had a vaccination about the same time. 159.105.80.141 ( talk) 12:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Is this line correct? Do the Munich police special task force currently occupy the former SS guard barracks? wikijde Wikijde 12:30, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
As of my visit there in October 2007 the official guide from the site stated this was true. I don't know about resisting a memorial but the police are stationed there. j_lechem@msn.com 18:44, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Here are links to pages showing the same newspaper cutting from Münchner Neueste Nachrichten dated Tuesday 21 March 1933 with details of opening date for Dachau http://www.holocaust-history.org/dachau-gas-chambers/photo.cgi?02 http://www.mazal.org/archive/DACHPHO/Dach02.htm
Translation:
The Munich Chief of Police, Himmler, has issued the following press announcement:
On Wednesday the first concentration camp is to be opened in Dachau with an accommodation for 5000 persons. All Communists and -- where necessary -- Reichsbanner and Social Democratic functionaries who endanger state security are to be concentrated here, as in the long run it is not possible to keep individual functionaries in the state prisons without overburdening these prisons, and on the other hand these people cannot be released because attempts have shown that they persist in their efforts to agitate and organise as soon as they are released.
If anybody can think of a rational for extracting the image from either page and posting it to commons it may be useful to others. -- Drappel 12:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Paul Berben "Dachau"1933-45 The Official Story" Norfolk Press 1975 - Mr Berben was an inmate of Dachau and a certified holocaust believer. His very detailed book seems to be totally unmentioned by those you would think - he was an eyewitness and his details are matching up very well with current knowledge. ( I can see how he might have been marginalized back when death counts of up to 250,00 was the politically correct stance - but today he appears the eventual winner in the facts department.) His book gores both oxen - a little - probably the truth usually. One interesting story he recounts is the there was about 2,700 Catholic priests ( usually not reqioured to work - exempted due to status?) but they volunteered to work in the hospitals during the massive typhus epidemics. Many priests died because of their close contact with the sick. Instead of being murdered it turns out they were heroes - good for one story, sucks for another. His description of camp life is at odds with the standard story - until the end of the war. At war's end he says all transportation - Red Cross food packets, regular food, medicine, etc ground to a halt. He also says that this continued after liberation - Allies couldn't get regular transportation going for some time - bridges, etc had to be rebuilt. His book deserves at least a footnote, particularly in a wiki Dachau article. In fact the book should be the basis for most of the article - he is/was? an inmate and a believer ( maybe there is a problem with him that I am unaware of?)(One problem I can see is that his book is so factual, unhysterical, verifiable that it is hard to use it for a political agenda - more of an encyclopedic historical type book.) 159.105.80.141 13:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
PS Mr Berben mentions Dr Blaha in his book - one of the few references to Blaha I have seen. Per Berben the doctor did 10,000+ autopsies at Dachau. Does anyone know where these autopsy reports are? Someone - unless the reports have been destroyed - is setting on a treasure trove of data. Arolson, US Army, USHM, ... the chain of possesion must be researchable. 159.105.80.141 14:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The Red Cross representative was listed twice as Victor Maurer, and twice as Victor Mauer. That confusion seems to have been propagated to here, which copies from an old version of this WP article, as follows:
On April 27, 1945, Victor Mauer, delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross, was allowed to enter camps and distribute food. In the evening of the same day a prisoner transport arrived from Buchenwald. Only 800 survivors were brought from originally 4,480 to 4,800 persons in transit. Over 2,300 corpses were let lie in and around the train. The last regular commander of the KZ, Obersturmbannfuhrer Eduard Weiter, had already fled on 26 April. He probably followed Obersturmbannfuhrer Martin Weiss, who had led the camp from September 1942 until November 1943.
On April 28, 1945, the day before the surrender, Camp Commandant Martin Weiss had left the Dachau camp, along with most of the regular guards and administrators in the camp. On that same day, Victor Maurer, a representative of the Red Cross, had tried to persuade 1st Lt. Johannes Otto, the adjutant of Commandant Weiss, not to abandon the camp, but to leave guards posted to keep the prisoners inside until the Americans arrived. Mauer feared that the prisoners would escape en masse and spread the active typhus fever epidemic. Lt. Otto declined to remain and fled*.
*source: wikipedia.org
This site identifies him as "Victor Maurer", so I have changed the incidences of the latter to the former, as it "sounds" more reasonable [1]. He is also named as Victor Maurer here. However, if someone with explicit knowledge knows that this is wrong, then by all means please change it the other way.
Anyone else doing a web search should be aware, however, that the word "Mauer" in German means "wall", and hence many German pages referring to a "Mauer" in Dachau will, when translated, prove to be referring to a , especially of the camp, instead of naming a person.
-- Eliyahu S Talk 23:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
There is controversy about which units actually liberated Dachau, in particular claims that units made up of non-white American soldiers were first on the scene but that the Army pulled them out and brought in a "white" unit when it realized the importance of the camp (because it wanted to stage photo-ops for propaganda purposes).
I ran across this website after a quick search, but there are others (I think there was even a book claiming that it was an African-American unit [enlisted men, that is, of course they had white officers!]):
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/LiberationDay3.html Critic9328 04:49, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The dispute among the veterans (including commanders) was quite heated - elsewhere. See [6] for example. The black unit liberated a subcamp of Dachau, and there were several such in area. -- HanzoHattori 04:52, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
"In total, over 200,000 prisoners from more than 30 countries were housed in Dachau of which nearly one-third were Jews."
This means that over two-thirds of the prisoners were not Jewish, so either something more specific than "from more than 30 countries" (which is meaningless if none of the countries are named) should be added or the final clause should be eliminated (because it gives undue emphasis to one group who were a minority--in any case Jews from where?--were they Dutch Jews, or German Jews, Polish Jews, etc.?--it doesn't add anything as it stands). (Maybe changing "Jews" to "Jewish" would help.) Critic9328 05:04, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
A liitle note on the construction the gas chamber and second crematoria
The Gas chamber and crematorium (Baracke X)was built just outside the prisoner compound at Dachau but within the area of the SS Kaserne. At Wannsee it was decided that all camps within the system had to have a Gas Kammer and Dachau was certainly no exception. The long, rectangular building was built very close to an existing crematorium, which dates to 1940. Construction of "Baracke X" started in May 1942. The work was largely carried out by Polish priests who who prisoners at Dachau, under the supervision of Kapos Karl Wagner and Fritz Wendel. The priests had been given a short course in building and were joined by one joiner and three qualified bricklayers. By late March-April 1943 the project was completed. I have found no record of whether the construction crew were killed afterwards to conceal the potential of the new building. The above information is derived largely from "That was Dachau" by the Czech survivor Stanislev Zamecnik.(Collection Documents, 2004) Zamecnik is a trained historian and his book is quite matter-of-fact. He was a nurse in the infirmary and as such, saw Dr Rascher on a daily basis. Zamecnik concedes that he cannot prove that Rascher was using the Gas chamber to test combat gasses as part of his medical research but goes on to state that it would be most unlike the SS to at least test the facility.(p 284-290) Taffthedigger ( talk) 20:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
During the occupation of Germany the U.S., tried to induce a collective guilt in the German population by for example spreading posters of Dachau victims all over their occupation zone. The title was "YOU DID THIS!" or "You are Guilty of these Atrocities!" Here is an example of such a poster. Here is the same poster from a German Museum. I've seen the same poster on many different sites, so I presume it was the only type, or the most popular type. Another reference to the poster in question.
I'm trying to see if I can use the image in Wikipedia, the poster itself is without copyright since it was created by the U.S. Army, but since the images it uses may still have copyright I cant use it until every image it includes has been verified as free to use.
I've so far managed to identify one of the images.
If anyone recognized any of the other images I would appreciate if you told me where it comes from and copyright status. Thanks.-- Stor stark7 Speak 15:59, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It is frequently mentioned that one third of the prisoners at Dachau were Jewish. One would assume that this means that of the 206,000 inmates registered in the main Dachau camp during its 12 years of existence, one third were Jewish, but this would be wrong. The one third figure refers to the last roll call taken on April 26, 1945 in which it was determined that one third of the inmates in the main camp and all the 123 sub-camps were Jewish. This information was given in the official Army report entitled "Dachau Liberated, The Official Report by The U.S. Seventh Army." Beginning in February 1942, Jews were sent to what is now Poland, not to camps in Germany. When Dachau was liberated, there were around 2,500 Jews in the main camp, but some had only arrived from the sub-camps the day before.
Geseke too tambien also ( talk) 19:59, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
The 522nd Field Artillery Battalion of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team is credited by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum with the liberation of one of the Dachau sub-camps, but it was NOT the Kaufering IV sub-camp. The Kaufering IV sub-camp of Dachau was liberated by the 12th Armored Division of the US Seventh Army on April 27, 1945 with help from soldiers in the 101st Airborne Division, who arrived on April 28, 1945. This information is on this web site: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauLiberation/KauferingIVLiberation.html Geseke too tambien also ( talk) 21:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
This sentence is incorrect: "The camp was surrounded by an electrified barbed-wire gate, a ditch, and a wall with seven guard towers.[4]" The Dachau concentration camp was surrounded on three sides by a wall. On the fourth side was a barbed wire fence and a moat. The sides that were surrounded by a wall had a barbed wire fence in front of the wall. There was no barbed-wire gate anywhere at the main Dachau camp when the camp was in operation. A barbed-wire gate was constructed later so that tourists can now enter the crematoria area from inside the camp. When the Memorial site was first constructed, the American Army was still occupying the former SS garrison and tourists could not walk to the crematoria area, so a new gate had to be constructed at the north end of the former concentration camp. 76.191.171.210 ( talk) 22:57, 29 April 2009 (U
Why one should state that the guards were murdered instead of executed. In this way one gives an negative connotation to the execution. In the the article is said that the prisoners "died", not "murdered", giving the impression that it was maybe a natural cause or an accident that 50,000 people died. It is completely insane to insist that the execution of the mass-murderers was a "murder". I am absolutely sure that no surviving prisoner nor relative af a former prisoner would call it murder. Personally, I prefer the word "annihilated"; it was justice. Robvhoorn ( talk) 07:54, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
the last regular Commanders Name was Obersturmbannführer Eduard Weiter, not Wilhelm Weiter. Martin Weiss was just something like a "Support-Commander" to Eduard Weiter - he wasn't a regular in this Days. -- Hartmann Schedel Prost 14:45, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Not wanting to deliberatly infuriate the powers that be I would like to suggest tenderly that since all scholars know that the "gas" chamber was used for disinfecting clothes etc that - even though the text of the article doesn't mention death by gas chamber - that either the picture of the "infamous gas chamber " be removed or better still, a paragraph mentioning that it was more of a laundry facility meant to save lives than a murder implement. Getting the wiki reliable sources policy in line with reliable sources would be a blessing - I am of course assuming that scholars and science are approved reliable sources. 159.105.80.141 ( talk) 12:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC) If citations are needed I believe I or many others can supply footnotes by the mile.
Putting the truth in a wiki article is not neo-Nazification, is it? 159.105.80.103 ( talk) 18:23, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Looking for information on orison manifests concerning two brothers incarcerated at Dachau .Gabriel Swiec and his brother —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.214.100.115 ( talk) 01:02, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm making a few changes to the formats of the source material, as requested by the tag. I would like to reiterate that WP frowns on commercial material - you can't sell books, photographs and courses here - and on essay-type material. This is not the place for opinions. I'm sure you can find plenty of blogs. So, I'm removing sites of those natures and also the personal comments made on many sites. We don't summarize the source according to our views, we cite it. What is required here is a simple factual narrative substantiated by authentic, credible sources. If you disagree with any of my removals, put it back in proper citation format with the reason why it is back. Thanks. Dave ( talk) 02:25, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm removing some words and statements that do not have a neutral point of view. In general, "brutal" and "murderers" are not acceptable. These are sentiments, not facts. For example, who is to define the killings as murder? They were carried out by the lawful state at the direction of its lawful leaders. Maybe the state was murderous. Who is to say? The allies said, in many war crimes trials. These are the facts we need here. This is a historical account, not "waving the bloody rag" as was said of the US reconstruction period after the Civil War here. The rag was the flag. Real flags wer often battle-torn and stained with blood. So choke down your righteous anger and come up with some neutral points of view. I find that simple relation of the truth is really quite adequate. For example, we would never say, "we strung up that brutal murderer so that he could dance in honor of his poor victims". Rather we would say, "On March 4 so-and-so, having been convicted by an international court for the crime of murder, underwent the penalty of death by hanging imposed by the people." We don't want to rabble-rouse, we want to inform. Thanks. I'm pulling a few statements and listing them below with explanations of why I pulled them. Dave ( talk) 08:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
"Prisoners were forced to do this work, starting with the destruction of the old munitions factory, under terrible conditions." That is not a fact, that is a judgement. We don't want your judgements, we want to know what happened. Remove the "terrible conditions" and replace it by a description of the conditions. Let people judge for themselves whether they were terrible. I'm sure there will be no problem getting the point across. Dave ( talk) 08:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
The article appeared to me somewhat disorganized so I organized it along lines that would be helpful in splitting it. The two lists, certainly, could be broken out as WP lists. "Liberation of Dachau" could be broken out. It depends on how much it expands. The prisoners, certainly, will grow, as this list seems to have become a kind of honor roll. Oh, and one more thing - the guts of the article - camp life - is almost totally missing. How did the prisoners live, what was life like there, what was death like there, what were the schedules and methods of execution, and for what reasons? Let us not turn our faces from the main horrors; this is history. Be sure, however, you keep the language objective. We have to do better than the liberators, whose immediate reaction was to shoot guards, beat others and manhandle the civilians through the camp. We just want to tell the story accurately. Dave ( talk) 11:20, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Dear anonymous Wikipedia editor. I am sorry to inform you that at Wikipedia, we are not supposed to insert information that cannot be verified by everybody. This includes personal testimonials. If you have some information passed down to you by your father, you should first attempt to pass it to a reputable historical organization such as Yad Vashem or the Nizkor Project. For details see WP:Original research. Rest assured that we all acknowledge your effort. With kind regards, Andreas (T) 19:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the reference to Dachau "protective custody camp" in one of the image captions. This the euphemism the nazis used to describe their camps, suggesting that they were for the health of their captives.... an irony the prisoners might not have appreciated. Peterlewis ( talk) 16:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
In an historical article of this importance, the sources should be carefully selected. Webpages maintained by individuals are not reliable sources, and the material contained in such sources should be removed, unless it is verified by reliable sources, in what case these should be mentioned. See Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. This concerns the following sources:
Here is the proof that the author of scrapbook pages and furtherglory.wordpress.com is a National Socialist-sympathizer: http://paolosilv.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/furtherglory-aka-scrapbookpages-i-accuse-you-publicly-of-being-a-holocaust-denier-or-reviser/ 96.25.175.176 ( talk) 20:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/was-it-wrong-for-the-nazis-to-trick-prisoners-into-going-into-the-gas-chamber-at-dachau/#more-10951. Take a look at the vile posts of furtherglory/scrapbookpages. The two blogs are linked, make use of the same material. They are produced by the same person. This constitutes Holocaust denial. 96.25.175.176 ( talk) 05:14, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Andreas (T) 13:02, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Since visiting Dachau in the 1970s it's always been my understanding that it was an 'internment camp' not an 'extermination camp' - a vile place, but not primarily designed as a death factory like Auschwitz. The article states that "...there is no evidence of mass murder within the camp — by methods other than poor sanitation (etc....) medical experiments, or beatings and shootings for infractions of the rules or at random". But there's a photo of a 'Brausebad' gas-chamber, so now I'm confused.
86.178.114.19 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC).
I have re-added this entry about a book that a former soldier of the German army wrote. Thank you Steven Anderson for your comment. I would appreciate if others don't delete this again. I thought that was against the rules. This link is from the British historian David Irving's website, the bestselling author of many books including "The Destruction of Dresden". He discovered and retrieved Goebbels diaries from Moscow in 1991 (no one else even knew of these diaries) and was the first historian to demonstrate the Hitler diaries were fake. He is considered by many knowlesgable people (including other historians) as the most knowledgable person of WW II. To dismiss him as a "denier" is ridiculous and symptomatic of the laws in modern Europe that prohibit free speech on the subject. It is due to so called "holocaust deniers" that the sign when you enter Auschwitz now says 1 million people were killed instead of the the 4 million we were told until 1990. You can also thank the "deniers" for exposing the lie that Germans skinned Jews and made soap and lampshades from them. I still recall reciting poems by the poet Sylvia Plath in high school in the 1970's about the soap and lampshades supposedly made by the NAZIS. This lie was exposed thanks to so-called deniers. My thanks go out to the "holocaust deniers". Pgg804 ( talk) 17:12, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
LoveUxoxo, In my comment above I guess I didn't understand who deleted my comments or how that was determined. After reviewing Steven J. Anderson's profile I'm not surprised at all that he deleted my comment. He and his friends are not interested in truth and that can be seen from his action on the comments page. This is a section for comments, not a part of the article, but because he doesn't want people to see the book I cited he deletes my entry. He and his friends only want you to see his version of the truth, which means he is not interested in the real truth but his "truth" that can be used for political purposes. There was no soapboxing by me . This is the comments section and I'm explaining the propaganda battle that the Steven Andersons of the world have fought for purposes that has nothing to do with history, but political advantage such as Norman Finkelstein has described in his book "The Holocaust Industry". Among other things, there is big money involved. Hohum, Wikipedias entry on David Irving is worthless for the reasons I just explained. Wikipedia editors are not interested in the truth. Also, I'll fight my battles when and where I choose to. The USA's Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA thinks David Irvig's books are outstanding and a very reliable source. I will take their opinion over Steven J. Anderson and other wikipedia editiors any day. The CIA uses David Irving's "Mares Nest" for their purposes in their library and gave it an outstanding review. Here is the link: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol11no1/html/v11i1a11p_0001.htm Lets see if Steven J. Anderson deletes this link to the CIA government website. Perhaps wikipedia thinks the CIA and the President of the United States that appoints the CIA director are anti-semitic too. Pgg804 ( talk) 00:21, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Hohum, are you an editor for wikipedia? If you are not then I am not interested in your opinion as to what should or should not be said on the discussion page. I reviewed the guidelines link. Maybe you should read it. As of now wikipedia is an unreliable source of information for WW II history. What you call "soapbox" is information that resulted from years of reasearch by top scholars such as Norman Finkelstein. If you are not an editor for wikipedia I suggesst you save your breath because I will "soapbox" the works of scholars and widely held opinions by many other people when I think its appropriate. I could cite many endorsements David Irving has received, but it appears you are out of your league here and unaware of how certain groups have attempted to shut up knowledagble historians like Irving who can speak German and do genuine research in favor of historians that can't speak German (most of them) so they are incapable of doing real research and only recite concensus opinions. They merely repeat what other historians have already written. Favorable opinions for "allied powers", negative opinions for "axis powers", whether these opinions are truthful or not.
I am not going to list the long list of historians that have given Irving glowing reviews of his work here. But I'll post an interview here about how after Irving discovered the Goebbels diaries and the publisher wanted to publish his book, it was stopped from doing so from pressure from "certain groups". In this interview Christopher Hitchens cites Irving as one of the 3 or 4 most important historians on the subject. Irving was censored. I have no intention of stopping what you call "soapboxing" if I think its appropriate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMxleCC5VVg&feature=channel_video_title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMAAiS5Ljsw&feature=relmfu Pgg804 ( talk) 05:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Is the Unied States Holocaust Memorial Museum considered a reliable source? It says "a crematorium, including a gas chamber - whose use, however, cannot be proved - was built in 1942". So here the US Holocaust museum says no one was gassed at Dachau. Why is there still a prominent photo of a crematorium in the Dachau entry with no commentary on its use in the article? Is an unproven accusation by someone now evidence good enough to convict the German people?
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Dachau/Brudehl280198.html
Here an American GI wrote that he witnessed the allies building a fake crematorium at Dachau in the 1960's. It appears the allies were doing this all over Europe. Read the bottom of the letter where it says he received hate mail after reporting what he saw. Since this is only the comments section and in view of the other shenannigans the "allies" pulled (including wikipedia putting a photo of a crematorium in this entry when the Holocaust Museum says there is no evidence it was ever used) I posted this letter here.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Dachau/Dachau200799.html Pgg804 ( talk) 15:17, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
are the men being shot regular german soldiers, or SS? How can you tell. And these were POW's were they not? Isn't it a war crime to just shoot them without a trial? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.76.44.83 ( talk) 23:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
The "staff" section includes the following sentence: "It is reported that female SS guards gave prisoners guns before liberation to save them from postwar prosecution.{{
fact}}
" With due note given to the tagged lack of citation, does this mean that the female guards gave guns to the prisoners to save the guards from prosecution, to save the prisoners from prosecution, or what? The sentence as it stands appears more to mystify than clarify.
86.156.21.223 (
talk)
23:45, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia received a complaint ( 2012022610001451) about this article, during investigation of which it was discovered that content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/DachauLiberation/GuardTowerB.html (content was added in this edit). Content added in this edit has been replaced with the material in the article prior to this paste. This content must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
The SS men under Wicker's control were German soldiers who had arrived at Dachau only recently. So these guards were, in no way, responsible for the conditions in the camp.
The guards who were gunned down by Wells and the other American soldiers had only been at Dachau for a few weeks and they were, in no way, responsible for the conditions in the camp.
I undid the deletion of the extensive contribution to the subsection Killing of camp guards [7] with the question asking "on what grounds are you deleting this? please make clear and get consensus for the undo on the talk page FIRST". But no clear reply has been given and no discussion initiated here as requested. Can the 'undoers' please explain here their reasons for deletion based upon wiki policy as has been requested.
AnkhMorpork = Reason given: "Tendentious"
Tom harrison = Reason given: "undo slanted rewrite - get consensus on the talk page"
Squiddy = Reason given: "rv - scrapbookpages != RS"
I guess RS means the editor thinks scrapbookpages are NOT a Reliable Source. Can you explain why please.
And the other material not using that source as a reference. Can any of you explain to me why that was also deleted? -- Mystichumwipe ( talk) 11:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
To AnkhMorpork. I allowed time for a response to my last reply, but you did not object to my suggestion (above). To avoid edit warring please respond to the discussion I have initiated here. And please may I request that instead of reverting without discussion you give a sound and noted reference to some sort of genuine wiki infringement besides 'fork' which I do not think applies (for the reasons given). Also can you explain why you prefer deleting information - whose accuracy appears not to be in question - in favour if an entry which you have acknowledged gives "undue prominence" to one of the key perpetrators of this massacre. That does strike me as a form of censorship.-- Mystichumwipe ( talk) 11:42, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
And now after your edit it gives too much undue weight to Sparks. How come you are OK with that? And you have just ignored the discussion about this above. The subsection is now highly misleading. We now have 30-50 guards killed compared to 520 detailed killings. That's not "...a balanced summary" . Its minimising the atrocity. Don't you agree? And what verbiage? Can you give an example?-- Mystichumwipe ( talk) 10:53, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
That point has been addressed. AND you have AGAIN ignored my question regarding the bias of this article's subsection to only Sparks' account. Please answer.-- Mystichumwipe ( talk) 13:21, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Johannes Heesters[34] (visited the camp and entertained the SS-officers, was also given/giving tours)[35]
He is listed as being a member of the staff, but that is not being a staff-member, regardless of his support for the nazis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.239.209.92 ( talk) 06:35, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
He was a member of the U.S. Army, they arrived at the camp in April 1945, he took many pictures, I may be able to scan and upload them to wikicommons.-- Craigboy ( talk) 08:09, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
Having just visited Dachau, I decided to look up some of the details. What is becoming clear to me, is that there was a considerable development over time. Unfortunately, I didn't photograph it, but I believe one poster said 500 persons died in Dachau before the war (i.e. -33 to -39), in rather stark contrast to the thousands who died later.
I think the article should somehow reflect the development of the camp over the twelve years it was in operation. Unfortunately, I haven't found any detailed information on this.
Ketil ( talk) 07:51, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
The section is meaningless, seemingly the author preferred to talk around the subject or perhaps via Lazy Links, or perhaps English is not his first language, —needs clarification- full quote:
In Operation Keelhaul, persons born in the area under the dominion of the Soviet Union were to be given over to the Soviet empire for imprisonment or death. The existence of this program had been vehemently denied in Allied propaganda before the end of the war. As part of the liquidation of Dachau, persons of Eastern origin who had been brought to Germany under the Ostarbeiter program were forcibly deported to the Soviet Union. Despite being handcuffed and beaten by American soldiers, many still managed to resist- whether hanging themselves, smashing window panes and cutting their throats on the shards of glass, or throwing themselves into the flames of their burning barracks. At Dachau, there were 275 cases of suicide or attempted suicide. The deportees begged American soldiers to shoot them.[48]
"persons born in the area under the dominion of the Soviet Union" Huh? Prisoners? Guards? "this program?" A program!? "the liquidation of Dachau???" Not a single clue why the suicide attempts, for what sounds like an improvement in quarters?? People need to remember that a list of facts is usually a poor description and a shitty explanation. And links should be optional enhancements, not required (writing crutches).
--
68.127.80.58 (
talk)
21:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)Doug Bashford
The photo at the top right is NOT a photo of the main entrance to the camp. It is of the entrance to the SS training area, which was some distance from the camp itself. The entrance to the camp was through the Jourhaus, of which there are many photos extant. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 10:22, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
"The main gate" is the Main Entrance to the "Dachau Complex." The Concentration Camp Entrance, where the prisoners were held, is the building and gate with the "Arbeit Macht Frei" slogan. Most of the "Complex" consisted of facilities for the SS troops in who oversaw the concentration camp itself. I will be looking for appropiate sources for references, but a good place to start is the map in "The Liberator" on page 271. Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:41, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I would like to suggest that the article lead with perhaps the location of the "camp" rather than a photo of the "main entrance" to the complex. The gate in the Jourhaus is really more significant since it highlights the fate of the inmates. And, I have a 1945 image that I am willing to use in the article. It is possible to include all of the images, just in a different format. Comments? Steve Pastor ( talk) 01:10, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank You, Derek R Bullamore! for helping with those references. Steve Pastor ( talk) 00:44, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
January 2014 Three of cheering prisoners. One of bodies in the Death Train. One including an very well fed prisoner. I don't think this adequately reflects the conditions the prisoners labored, suffered, and died under. Comments? Steve Pastor ( talk) 01:30, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The following coordinate fixes are needed for
— 65.121.93.130 ( talk) 17:56, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Robert B. Sherman claims to have entered the camp in early April, which seems unlikely to me: "In early April 1945, he led half a squad of men into Dachau concentration camp, the first Allied troops to enter the camp after it had been evacuated by the fleeing German military only hours earlier." Anyone got a source for this? Kendall-K1 ( talk) 00:02, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
wrt.: "Several Norwegians worked as guards at the Dachau camp.[49]"
FYI:
so the units they served in were of mixed nationality. After WWII these have wanted to uphold their image as "honourable soldiers".
49:
also these Norwegians, when cycling through the various SS training and service assignments, were stationed, and therefore presumeably served as guards, at Dachau.
The fine distinction:
General issue:
from any nation that provided volunteers would have held similar positions (which is probably unfortunate for the "honourable soldier" image). But at this stage, this is purely my assumption.
Notes on a draft for suggested text:
Drafts:
This included members of Norwegian nationality (49)."
These were Waffen-SS volunteers (49), which would be posted/serve at various stations in the SS organization."
IF this is important enough to fiddle with:
And it would be nice if someone with the requisite historical knowledge could confirm - and preferably reference - that posting "at various stations in the SS organization" did occur, and perhaps also whether or not this was routine, as I have assumed here.
T
I'm not a regular Wikipedia editor, but I was doing unrelated research, came here to look up camps near Kempen, Bavaria, and I realized I have some extremely relevant information here that would be incredibly useful to anyone who wants to know more about how Operation Keelhaul was carried out in Dachau specifically.
http://nrs.harvard.edu/urn-3:FHCL:962306?n=4
It's a link to a specific page from one of the interviews from the Harvard Project on the Soviet Social System; the person interviewed was in a prison camp at Kempen, and he describes the attempted repatriation of former Soviet citizens from those camps. I don't habitually edit Wikipedia; I'm not sure how you want to format this all or how it should be included, but I feel like this is something that should be added to both this article and probably the article on Operation Keelhaul itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.153.157 ( talk) 06:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
We've got a couple of citations to scrapbookpages.com, which is a self-published source. The guy who published this cites his sources [8] as:
Kendall-K1 ( talk) 15:24, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
While factually true that the gate bearing the famous slogan was stolen in 2014, this is not a significant event and is not material to the article. Further, as described in the CNN Source, the original was removed in 1965 and replaced with a replica which was stolen. 65.206.16.35 ( talk) 14:46, 6 March 2015 (UTC)