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This page is really very weak. Greenpeace is considerably worse than this article makes out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.230.38 ( talk) 06:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I remember a documentary on Greenpeace many years ago on broadcast UK television where it was stated that one man, a well known swindler got into the leadership and ended up with control over all their bank accounts and economics, ran off, but still sat on all the access to the accounts. This was allegedly in the late 70's early 80's does anyone know this story or the documentary? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.215.58.231 (
talk)
21:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Seriously, how can cite information from the Greenpeace website when that site is totally biased? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.168.147 ( talk) 13:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I decided to add this back. Look discussion from here: [1]
About the tree itself? Yes, it was old, around 200-300 years old. But notice following: It was left untouched by the owner of forest "during forestry process" because it was so old! They didn't touch it because according good forestry standards very old, different or just remarkable trees should be left living. But why it crashed during storm? It's very simple to see why many trees crash down near motor ways. There is no other trees supporting it and storm can push without obstacles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.156.157.5 ( talk) 20:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I added case "Kahlschlag am nordfinnischen Peurakairasee" (Greenpeace Magazin 6/2005). Photo where was said to be clear cutting, but which in reality was a snowy bog and ice covered lake, which has never been a forest (at least not in last 10000 years) [2], [3]. Just more lies from this organization.
Soviet Union supported Greenpeace? More sources? And what was this Leif Blaedel case. I don't remember? Did it happen in 80's? [4], [5]
"Gudmundsson's film reexamines evidence produced in 1986 by award-winning Danish journalist Leif Blaedel, which shows that one propaganda film used by Greenpeace was faked by using paid animal torturers. Greenpeace has tried to silence Gudmundsson, with demands for injunctions and/or damages in the courts of Iceland, the U.K. and Norway. Gudmundsson has spent about $40,000 in legal fees so far" ... "Greenpeace then threatened lawsuits against Danish television, but decided instead to sue the two journalists most responsible for compiling the devastating information. One of these reporters is Leif Blaedel, a recipient of the prestigious Cavling Prize for Danish journalism" (those links say original sources are The New American, November 19, 1990 and Forbes, November 11, 1991, unfortunately can not check) 85.156.154.143 22:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Greenpeace has alot of unsubstantiated claims on it's website, such as 'nuclear power plants regularly emit dangerour radiation into the environemnt around them,' and other such tripe and bullshit. They also have a video depicting a hypothetical situation where a hijacked aircraft is flown into a nuclear powerstation, with a final claim 'No one ever flew a plane into a wind turbine.' Curiously enough no one ever flew a plane into a nuclear powerstation either, not to mention it is nigh impossible to hijack an aircraft anymore anyway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.187.85.140 ( talk) 06:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
It would be nice if the reference links were given titles. Currently, all I can see are references that look like "35: [25]", which is quite unhelpful. nneonneo 20:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Indeed many of the claims do not offer any citations at all, or where they do the references do not support the claims. Often the citations are to controversialist magazines such as Spiked which themselves offer POV unsupported by evidence. I've made some attempt to tidy up the section on DDT - but the whole page needs an overhaul to remove unsupported POV and to make clear where the criticisms of Greenpeace originate from. -- Dean Morrison ( talk) 18:33, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Cant find it in the web, but sometime in the 80's greenpeace dammed a ditch from a paperpulp factory in Finland protesting the use of chlorine in the bleaching of paper. What they actually did was endangered the testrun of ozone bleaching. Luckily their damn was lousy.
After they were told that the factory wasn't using chlorine, they tried to save face by claiming that their escapade had brought out the fact. From that they got more egg on it as the factory had given a press conference of it 2 weeks earlier.
The whole incident showed greenpeaces modus operandi
1. Find a easy target far from main body of income. Easy meaning a case that general public can act emtionally even if the case with proper look isn't real.
2. Get banners and a few protestors.
3. Invite press, usually more press than protestors.
4. Make demands
5. If shown wrong, blame others
What we won't see is big controversial protest close to their main income areas.
Like, german autofactories, NY private cars, california airconditioning.
It's always something far with few voices.
"Some of its high ranking members have been arrested for offenses including vandalism and trespassing such as Mike Roselle[1], Paul Watson and John Sellers (activist).[2]"
I don't see the sources saying that they have been arrested for vandalism when working for Greenpeace. They have all worked also on protests and organizations other than Greenpeace and the sources don't specify what they have been arrested for when working for Greenpeace. So I don't think you can put that kind of a criticism of a individual person under this article. 84.250.50.59 17:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Nor is there any source provided for the fact that these offenses were committed by 'high ranking members'. As far as I know Greenpeace is not a membership organisation. Paul Watson was an employee and director in the 1970's, but there are no sources provided for him being involved in any offense on behalf of Greenpeace or otherwise. I've therefore removed the passage. Patagorda ( talk) 16:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
It seems to me like the material on this page should be merged into the main Greenpeace page. It is inherently POV to have a separate article. If combined, these issues would hopefully get fair treatment from both sides, and would be more visible. Are the pages kept separate because of fear that a merge could not be done civilly? Other thoughts? AAMiller 07:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Careful when it comes to the DDT discussion. Trace your sources and make sure they don't tie back to professional industry shills such as Steven J. Milloy, who has done hatchet-job pseudo-science work for the tobaco industry, asbestos producers (on the latter, he parrots the false claim that asbestos would have saved the WTC towers), chemical companies, etc, and as an attack-dog against the concensus on AGCC ("global warming"). It's stunning how much of the attack-dog stuff traces back to an interconnected handful of paid shills.
69.95.70.128 21:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The DDT information was either POV, wildly innaccurate, or the unsourced repetition of claims made lobby groups.
I've removed it Dean Morrison 21:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
You are forgetting to include Elders of Zion, Freemasons and the trilateral commission in your reasons for deleting the DDT article. Try refuting individual sources. I will be including artiles published by African and UN affliated sources as well. But I Guess the asbesdos industry could get their slimy tentacles over there too.
If you are a conspiracy bent kind of bloke why not talk about the "Big Pharmaceuticals" that get over $300 million to treat an easily preventable disease.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mricbm ( talk • contribs) 23:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Malaria is an natural control to prevent overpopulation, i dont see why it should pe prevented —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.14.9.167 ( talk) 10:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I've tidied up the DDT section to remove POV and unsubstantiated claims. I've also made it clearer where the criticisms of Greenpeace come from - namely Libertarian political critics and controversialist magazine Spiked. I feel this page is itself being used to mount an attack on Greenpeace, rather than giving a balanced summary of the criticisms of the organisation, and the sources of these. -- Dean Morrison ( talk) 18:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
The discussion of some of the problems of wind power under the 'renewable energy' heading of the main article is clearly argued and well-sourced, but it doesn't seem to have much to do with Greenpeace. It would seem to be better located in an article on wind power. The claim is made that Greenpeace 'failed to report' the findings of a Scottish government inquiry into wind power, but without further context, I can't see why GP should be faulted for this particular omission. 68.183.237.174 ( talk) 01:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Renewable power (removed from article)
Greenpeace also fails to point out that the renewable options they champion, like solar, wave, wind and tidal, are all intermittent power sources, and that intermittancy presents some major challenges. Greenpeace also failed to report the recent findings of the Scottish Parliament's 'Renewable Energy in Scotland' inquiry of February 2004. 'Renewable Energy in Scotland' was a major and comprehensive inquiry into the future of renewable energy in Scotland, which made some important recommendations. Its summary stated:
When a wind power station is connected to the grid a similar conventional capacity must be maintained as spinning reserve to cover the uncontrolled intermittency. The presence of an increasing number of distributed intermittent and unreliable micro-generators to replace more secure forms of generation leads to grid instability. [1]
Wind energy will always be a secondary, intermittent, unreliable energy source and can never satisfy a base load demand. (Wind energy) is a profligate waste of our most precious resource - wild land. [2]
The experience of Denmark, which has one of the greatest percentages of wind power utilisation in the world, is that the intermittency of wind power is a major problem in practice, as well as theory. The ICE report on Danish wind-systems stated that wind power was so variable that Denmark exported most of its wind power, rather than use it itself. In addition, in 2002 the entire system had a total of 54 days without usable power generation. The report concluded that it would be very difficult for countries like Britain to use a large percentage of wind power.
There were 54 days in 2002, for example, when wind supplied less than 1% of demand.
The variations, which are inherent in any wind energy system, can be readily accommodated in west Denmark because there are very strong electrical connections to the much larger grid systems of Norway, Sweden and Germany that can absorb these variations, particularly due to their reliance on rapid-reacting hydropower. Countries such as the UK, which operate an ‘island’ grid, will find it difficult to do this with slower-reacting thermal power stations and may thus have to limit their reliance on wind power. [7]
A similar report by the Renewable Energy Foundation confirms the problems experienced in Denmark and goes on to indicate that the UK may actually experience a rise in CO2 emissions through using wind power:
The key lesson learnt by the Danish and German utilities is that wind does not generate as much power as anticipated (typically an 18-20% annual load factor – not the 30% assumed for UK onshore wind turbines) and production does not match the daily and seasonal fluctuations of demand. Both countries have experienced consistently low annual load factors that have led various commentators to articulate concern about the cost and the level of subsidy needed to approach the targets set for renewable energy by the European Union.
Denmark achieves little or no direct reduction of emissions, because its CO2-free wind power is working alongside CO2-free hydro-power ... operating fossil capacity in (standby) mode generates more CO2 per kWh generated than if operating normally. [8]
The Wind Power criticism is entirely relevant to this article. Greenpeace has made an entire career out of promoting renewable energy in general and wind power in particular, and they have delivered many articles and features that make it appear as if wind power is a complete panacea. The fact that Greenpeace never points out any of the pitfalls and problems with large-scale wind power generation is a major failing of this organisation, especially as their pressure has now led to large government investment in this field. Therefore, this is a genuine criticism of Greenpeace that deserves to be in this section.
The date of these reports is not a valid criticism either. It takes a few years to get a balanced picture of what problems these large capital investments in wind power actually produce, and these are the latest reports that are available. Besides, that newer IEA report must be one of the most biased reports ever. It optimistically comments that:
The annual power output of a given turbine varies greatly with location and capacity factors of over 45% are rare
without reporting that average utilisation is 25% in the UK and 15% in Germany. It then says:
Western Denmark already successfully integrates a 20% share of wind energy into the electricity system, but this ability relies on good inter-connection to the German and Nordic grids for back-up and export.
when this is an contradiction in terms. Denmark does not integrate its 20% share of wind power precisely because of the inter-connector, which Denmark uses to export all of its wind power to Norway and Sweden. Balancing wind power with non hydro- electrical generation is near impossible. This report also says:
Three year data (2000-2002) in Denmark identified that the longest duration of calm weather with wind generation below 1% of capacity was 58 hours in 2002 and 35 hours in 2000.
without mentioning that in 2002 Denmark had 54 whole days below 1% of wind power and it conveniently forgets that in 2003 it experienced a whole week below 1% generation. So why did the much later IEA report forget the 2003 outage eh? (in fact, in 2003 Denmark had about 14 weeks below 10% generation, which is also a problem).
The bottom line here is that the earlier 2005 ICE report is a lot more factual and honest than the 2007 IEA report, which is why the latter should be ignored.
The criticism of Greenpeace stands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Narwhal-tooth ( talk • contribs) 03:11, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
The section about the alleged abortion scare by Greenpeace around Chernobyl, accusing it of complicity in genocide, contained no reference whatsoever. I've removed it. Patagorda ( talk) 16:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I did very small amounts of editing, I removed a lot of redlinks that would never be made and deleted the end section as it had no real relevance and didn't really make any kind of point. Mattyness ( talk) 22:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
It won't be hard to track down citations for this, but as I'm biased and consider myself pro-Greenpeace given that I am a member of the organisation, I do not feel it my place to add the following. Issues have been raised, as far as criticism within the wider media of the world, that Greenpeace are becoming grand-standers when it comes to the whaling issue. Their refusal to provide Sea Shepherd with the coordinates of the Japanese whalers and instead letting an environmental group flounder around for days ineffectively drew a lot of criticism within and without of Greenpeace. In the end, someone onboard the Greenpeace ship broke rank and slipped Sea Shepherd the coordinates. Sea Shepherd were distracted from the pursuit because the Japanese captured and held two hostages who were attempting to deliver written correspondence when the whalers refused to respond via radio, the Japanese held these people and eventually turned them over to Australian Customs on the ground that AC only hand them over well over the horizon so Sea Shepherd effectively will fall out of the pursuit, which occured.
Instead of providing details to Sea Shepherd, and with tensions riding high on the Greenpeace vessel, they turned back to port to refuel. Their refusal to provide the coordinates of the whalers led to Sea Shepherd wasting a week to try and find them again, and cost our ecosystem many whales lives as the Japanese felt free to resume harpooning their catch. Proof perhaps that idealistic biggotry rather than unification and cooperation has cost our environment more yet again.
Further criticism has been raised with the fact that Greenpeace have an estimated $100m budget for their Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary endeavours, they arrived in the SOWS a month after Sea Shepherd, and left a week before Sea Shepherd, running only one vessel whereas Sea Shepherd had two ships, a helicopter, and various other smaller craft operating on an estimated $1m budget. After refuelling, Greenpeace actions seemed to fall of the radar, a week later Sea Shepherd had to return to refuell and immediately resumed their return to SOWS, still on their microbudget while Greenpeace were too busy hanging signs and waving in protest at Heathrow Airport.
The priorities illustrated show that whilst Greenpeace have done wonders for drawing media attention to the plight of the whales in the sanctuary, their inaction has for the most part cost more whales lives. This year they gave themselves a big pat on the back when the whalers turned and ran on seeing their ship, something that has never happened before. They neglected to aknowledge what the Australian, New Zealand and English media (and possibly many more) picked up on; the whalers knew if Greenpeace found them, Sea Shepherd were close behind. Waving banners and shouting through loud speakers has never made a whaling fleet run, but every year Sea Shepherd have.
Make of it what you will, but I think this material is integral to addition to the criticism sections, especially as it has high proximity and notability to the matter, including on the Greenpeace page proper. As I stated above, as a member of Greenpeace (and no, I'm not a member of Sea Shepherd, although if Greenpeaces' attitude doesn't change I think my time and funding would be better spent elsewhere) I believe I have less ability to retain NPOV. 122.107.65.2 ( talk) 19:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You're sadly misinformed, if you check the facts, the global Greenpeace income is around USD150 million from all offices. I doubt after running three ships around the world conducting global campaigns on forests and the climate that they would have much left after that. Try around $4-5 million and you might be closer to the mark. Are you sure you're not a sock puppet for the Sea Shepards? 80.57.219.94 ( talk) 20:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
"Peurakairasee" or Peurakaira is an actual location and its protection has been discussed with Metsähallitus (Finnish Forest Administration). See: http://www.forestinfo.fi/metsalappi/kartat/peurakaira.pdf (Page 3) 89.166.23.148 ( talk) 09:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I have seen a number of articles, suggesting that the environmental movement, and in particular Greenpeace, has been usurped by motives to obstruct capitalism, rather than promote ecology. I'm not suggesting that the two motives are diametrically opposed -- indeed there is some overlap, but it seems an accurate and legitimate criticism. Founding member Patrick Moore in particular has voices such concerns, as part of his reason for leaving Greenpeace. I think this justifies a new section. -- 76.26.220.148 ( talk) 17:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
It was unsourced since November last year! 'Some say' really is just a cheap trick for someone to throw his own criticism in there. Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Mtijn ( talk) 14:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
On Showtime, Penn & Teller's Bullshit accused Greenpeace of a few things. On the third, of doing the same thing cure-for-cancer groups do:
1)Make people feel like they're contributing to the environment simply by being there & buying stuff when they're not doing anything useful, just so people can feel better about themselves.
2)Being wasteful environmental hypocrates. It'slike "Are you really environmentaly friendly? Your lifestyle wouldn't suggest so."
3)Throwing fundraising events where almost all of the money goes into paying for the event itself & very little money going into the cause. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.77.255 ( talk) 15:16, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
"After the occupation of the Brent Spar it became known that Shell had misled the public as to the amount of toxic wastes on board the installation." AFAIK it was not Shell misleading the public but in fact Greenpeace. If it was Shell, why is Greenpeaced critized. -- 84.58.155.174 ( talk) 21:54, 5 January 2009 (UTC) Linne
The criticism about Greenpeace's nuclear stance does not have any references to any source where criticism is apparent. The entire chapter is just original research. Shubi ( talk) 13:06, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on the Greenpeace article and I'll start merging criticism from here to the main article in appropriate sections. This article has had a lot of unsourced parts for a long time, so unless someone can find sources I'll remove those parts on the merge. So, whoever knows sources for unsourced parts, pleace add them. 89.27.56.101 ( talk) 22:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
"It is in fact alleged that Greenpeace has had no factual evidence, instead relying on unsubstantiated official company information for the report in order to garner publicity,"
How could it be unsubstantiated and official at the same time? Were the companies putting out unsubstantiated information, which Greenpeace picked up on? If so, it's not clear why that's Greenpeace's fault? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.157.94 ( talk) 13:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC) [9]
The first sentence of Critcisms section says Paul Watson was "pushed out of Greenpeace in the 1970s" -- this could be misleading since he was voted off the board then left on his own accord. Personally I don't really mind the phrasing since ousting him from the board may have been equivalent to pushing him out of the organization. But since we've been careful about how it's worded over at the articles on him and Sea Shepherd, I thought I'd ask here: any thoughts on how/if to address this? PrBeacon ( talk) 00:25, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
There's a huge amount of stuff that isn't sourced. Please add sources or I'll have to remove the unsourced parts as I merge this to the Greenpeace article. Shubi ( talk) 03:13, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted help with my project. Is it possible to make paper pulp from groundnut shells. He yes how is it done and is there any background information on this topic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.145.210.106 ( talk) 00:54, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
can someone add in a bit on the greenpeace "deathvan" that was going around under direct orders to acquire animals and euthernize them, it seems like a pretty important thing considering they were rounding up heathly animals and killing them without authority and using illegal posions/drugs to do it, here's the only source i can be botherd to find as i am too tired http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10710281 i doubt this will be added because a million irrational greenpeace members will come and erase my entire paragraph (again) 211.28.150.51 ( talk) 18:04, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
A few prominent members of Greenpeace have left the organization because of it's anti-nuclear stance, like co-founder Patrick Moore. Seems like that would have a place in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.116.255.66 ( talk) 05:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
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