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I know it's a charity, but did not know it is a quango. Will it become "just" a charity; will the government cease to provide part of its income; who knows? I see from the same source that
English Heritage is to be "merged or consolidated"; maybe CCT will become part of EH. --
Peter I. Vardy (
talk)
12:28, 24 September 2010 (UTC)reply
That would seem reasonably logical, or at least just have government funding through EH rather than in its own right. Needs monitoring for further announcements though, I don't think there's enough in today's list and accompanying article to really add anything to the article at the moment.
David Underdown (
talk)
12:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)reply
User:Rodw's last edit summary is doubtful about the apostrophe in the article title
St Giles' Church, Imber. The occurrences in the article mostly say St Giles's. It's a general problem for English-language churches with saints' names, including those not ending in "s", and it would be nice to see some consistency and even nicer to see some guidelines. St Giles? St Giles'? St Giles's?. The
Imber article, for example, has St Giles Parish Church but also St Giles's and Church of St Giles, and I've also come upon the problem in respect of another church - see
Talk:St Denys's Church, York.
Is there some forum where this can be raised, I wonder? Maybe a RfC? As far as the CCT articles are concerned, I'd go for the Trust's own formulation. "Church of St X, village/town/city/whatever" would solve the apostrophe problem but is a bit long-winded... --
GuillaumeTell18:12, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks for picking up my anxiety about apostrophe abuse (which I've been accused of before). I'm sure it has been discussed somewhere when working on lists of
Grade I listed buildings but I can't find it at present. I will ask
User:Malleus Fatuorum (who'se opinion on such matters I respect) to comment.—
Rodtalk18:34, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Consider also The Times, Saturday, Sep 02, 1961; pg. 7; Issue 55176; col A which shows St. Giles, Imber.
Two thoughts: Google the diocesan list for instance:
Manchester Diocese List, the old rule was one syllable name - 's, three syllable and more - just ', two syllable was difficult. This is a problem that exercised the minds of many a church school headteacher and manager. --
ClemRutter (
talk)
20:11, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
That approach does have the virtue of being logical. I remember though a somewhat similar situation when I was fiddling about with the article on
Robert Burns. It seemed reasonable to me to write about "Burns's poetry", but on the other hand nobody calls the anniversary of his birth "Burns's night". On balance I'd say that it's just got to be "St Giles' Church", absent any decision to go for the "Church of St X" option.
MalleusFatuorum20:39, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
My general, ad hoc, and very personal opinion on this is to punctuate it as I'd say it, and I'd say "St Giles' Church", not "St Giles's Church".
MalleusFatuorum20:43, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Thanks not sure the guidelines help much - seem to say all options are acceptable & I hate to admit it but no "who'se" was a genuine error - says something about my grammar school education in the 1970s.—
Rodtalk21:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
Hey, I was at a grammar school in the 1970s as well ... actually now I come to think of I wasn't, doesn't time fly. I was at university then, best years of my life! :lol:
MalleusFatuorum21:33, 2 October 2010 (UTC)reply
I've (sort of) agonised over this and, as has been said above, WP guidance is somewhat flexible. (How many angels dance ...?) As I personally think St Xs' Church somehow looks better than St Xs's Church, I've used the latter. And if you're reading it out loud it saves the "susses" at the end of the word. Also I used the same convention for a person's name in
John Douglas (architect). But then, what about All Saints, All Saints', or All Saints's; or Holy Cross (Holy Cross's!). And it's not normal to add "'s" to Holy Trinity (is it?).--
Peter I. Vardy (
talk)
09:31, 3 October 2010 (UTC)reply
All Saints is plural, so not an issue. If 'Holy Trinity Church' is the accepted title that is not an issue, but if it is an act of possession as in the Holy Trinity's belief, then the " '" is essential. Though this refers to the three aspects of of a deity, the noun is singular. It is a gut feeling that the s's plural for saints is is becoming a archaic form and that current English is more likely to use " s'" in cases of doubt. Before we leave this thread I think it may be worthwhile to put together a draft recommendation. So here goes:
In order of priority:
Be aware the title of the church may act as a stand alone phrase, with no possession implied
Where there is consensus on the official name- use that. Consult the official CofE database, or that of the diocese
In cases of three syllable words and above use "-'"
In cases of two syllable words, use local pronunciation as a guide, defaulting to "-'"
In cases of one syllable words, use local pronunciation as a guide, defaulting to "-'s"
Not only is the CCT a Quango, but perhaps one of the most inept, bureaucratic and officious of all semi-official governmental sponsored institutions. I can provide, for anyone interested, a whole catalogue of mismanagement errors, prejudices and ineptitudes about this institution for overpaid and failed, civil servants, who neither conserve, or are to be trusted with the cultural heritage they inherited without merit, and perpetually mismanage.
/info/en/?search=QuangoNorwikian (
talk)
15:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)reply
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