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That engine photo isn't the turbo engine, it's the low end two carb engine. The turbo had a sidedraft carb with a cylindrical air cleaner mounted back (forward?) on the driver's side of the firewall (well, right behind the back seat) right on the turbo input. The big pie plate air cleaners as seen here were the two carb and four carb, and it looks like you can see only one air horn going to one carb on the left side head. (I owned a few two carb and one four carb version, and I saw a few turbo versions). Gzuckier 19:12, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
The reason it is called Turbo Air is because 'Turbo' didn't have the accepted meaning it has now. In the same way, a lot of cars in the 30s, 40s and 50s had what was known as 'air conditioning'. However, this didn't mean what we know it to mean today (refrigeration) - it just meant a regular heating and ventilation system, because the later kind of air conditioning hadn't been invented, so obviously it didn't strike anyone as odd at the time (just having a regular system was more than most people could aspire to!).
In the same way, as there weren't any other Turbo cars around at the time, calling the Corvair's engine 'Turbo Air' wasn't considered odd because Turbo didn't mean what it means now. It would only have been considered odd after the turbocharged engie gained wider aceptance, following on the lead set by (you've guessed it) the Chevrolet Corvair, which besides having an engine called Turbo Air, was in fact the world's first turbocharged engine (or the second, if you could the Olds F-85, which beat it by a month or two, but was another GM product and fizzled out after a couple of years). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidevalve ( talk • contribs) 21:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
But wait, there's more! The two carb engines (80-110 HP) were all "Turbo-Air," and the four-carb. 140 HP engine was the "Super Turbo-Air." The actual Turbo engine says "Turbocharged" on the air cleaner with a fireball for the cross of the "T." At least it's graphically interesting... I'll see if I have a nice photo of a 140 HP to pop in as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aqmxv ( talk • contribs) 04:28, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
There is the Greenbrier so I am trying to find a good picture for it:) Whopper 02:20, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Could someone please comment on this? It makes no sense.. what's so bad about taking the key out?: "The first Corvairs (1960 – 1964) were factory equipped with an ignition lock wherein it was possible to start the car and then remove the key. Doing so in Southern California and being caught by the Los Angeles Police Department was a guaranteed ticket to a weekend in jail." -- JeffryJohnston 19:18, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Nothing wrong with the design, I used to drive a 64 Monza 900 with the keys in the speaker dish on the dash. But the thing was, the LAPD would see that there was no key in the ignition and instantly decide the car was stolen. And of course, once they decided to take you to jail, you were going to jail, end of story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.64.112.236 ( talk • contribs) 22 March 2006
What happened to the Ralph Nader related information in earlier versions? I certainly think it's pertinent to the car's history. 65.9.150.134 21:30, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I'd go further and include a mention in the introduction. Nader is main reason I have even heard of the corvair. 204.58.245.247 ( talk) 18:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I grew up in the Detroit suburbs in the 1960's, and I heard of the Corvair long before I ever heard of Nader. The general view in our neighborhood is that the Corvair was a fine car and that GM had been railroaded by Nader. John Paul Parks ( talk) 04:03, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Charisma was never Nader's strong suit--he always tells us what we don't want to, but need to hear. I put much of it back. I've seen Nader (the man who refuses to hold a driver's license, nor to own a car) since the old days of The Tonight Show, with Johnny Carson. Unsafe At Any Speed is a must read for anyone considering buying an American Car. More than almost single-handedly leading to the demise of the Corvair, one needs to read the chapter on the Ford Mustang in Nader's book,to appreciate the incredible way the car had it's body design taken to the engineers, telling them, "This is how it's going to look, now make it into a car--and make sure to keep the cost below $3,000." The marketing was even more incredible than the engineering. Before anyone had seen one, there were folks who paid cash to be put on a list to get the "first one in town." One woman wrote to Ford, before its big pemier to say, "The new Mustang is more exciting than sex!" My wife's best girlfriend bought a brand new 1965 Mustang. I drove it partway through a blizzard to New York City. What a piece of crap. I don't know which was scarier, trying to get ahead of the storm, or the way the crappy thing handled going down the Empire State Thruway at 85mph.
I saw Nader at our church during the 2004 campaign. Again, he told me a lot of things I did not want to hear, (but needed to). When he left the building, he was driven to the airport (he always travels coach) in the back seat of somebody else's van.
I also referenced, On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors, by John Z. DeLorean. For every potential American car buyer, I believe it is an even more essential read than Nader's book. In it he talks about how GM would design front suspensions for their cars by getting them to fail after a few hundred miles on the test track, and then upgrade just as little as possible to save a production dollar or two. DeLorean is referenced in WP, but like most of the sites on Google, everybody wants to talk about his car fiasco and his cocaine problem, instead of his hard-won bad news about General Motors.
I am 60 years old, have been a motor-head all my life. Like DeLorean I grew up in the Motor City, where I still live. When I was ten, my old man put a wrench in my hand and said, "If you're gonna drive 'em, you're gonna fix 'em." Although I appreciate high performance, I much prefer quality. My first two new cars were Volkswagens, the second from Pennsylvania and the last two have been Hondas, built in Ohio by Americans. I cannot tell you how many times I have returned to my parked Honda to find a big glob of snot in the middle of the windshield, especially in Dearborn. For a while I was seeing bumper stickers that read, "REAL Americans buy American cars." I later saw one on a Volvo which said, "Real Americans buy what they want, (or QUALITY)"-- W8IMP 03:13, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Ralph Nader made all sorts of allegations about all sorts of cars, and not too many of them had any real basis in fact. Chapter 2 tells of how the horizontal tailfins on the 1959 and 1960 Full-Size Chevrolets caused the rear ends of those cars to lift off the ground at speeds in excess of 70MPH. Tell that th NASCAR legend Junior Johnson, who won the 1960 Daytona 500 in a 1959 Chevy Impala Sport Coupe at an average speed of nearly 140MPH! Tell me: How can a car whose drive wheels leave the ground at 70 ever hope to attain 140? Perhaps Mr.Nader could explain that one, since his book was published FIVE YEARS after the fact! Yes, he did mention the Mustang in one brief chapter, but only to sustain the illusion of impartiality - he was on the payroll of the Ford Motor Company while he was writing his book!
If you read John DeLorean's book "On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors", pay special attention to where he says that it is incredibly stupid (Paraphrasing, as it's been nearly 25 years since I've read it myself) to put an engine as heavy as the Corvair's 400-ish lb, mostly aluminum powerplant out behind the rear axle. Then the genius goes into production with his own car, powered by a CAST IRON V-6 sourced from Renault/Peugeot/Volvo. This engine weighs more than 200 lbs MORE thanthe Corvair's engine! It's widely known that Mr. DeLorean left GM under circumstances that were less than favorable to him, and his book was just his way of exacting his pound of flesh from the automaker. CorvairJim
All Corvairs had a fully independent rear suspension, not just the 65 and later. The swing axles were fully independent as well, just not as good of a design.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.113.209.173 ( talk • contribs) 5 April 2006
The definition of independent suspension I learned was that camber, caster, and toe all had to be independently controllable during suspension motion. Swing axles don't allow independent camber control, therefore aren't fully independent suspension. -- Aqmxv 14:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
just badly. Both rear wheels were totally independent of each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.113.209.173 ( talk • contribs) 9 April 2006
Is it fair to say that the name was artificial and doesn't mean anything? Was it a play on the words Corvette and corsair? Maikel 13:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
REPY TO Maikel....
The more common belief was that the name was a combination of the two most prominant GM lines, Corvette and Belair.. ala Corvair.
There was a 1953 Concept Corvette like car called the Corvair. The name was saved and eventually was used for the little air cooled wonder we all know as the Corvair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.38.58 ( talk • contribs) 15 June 2007
Someone needs to look into the engineering section. Someone wrote it referring to themself a lot. 75.37.67.193 08:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Essay by some guy who never owned one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.189.243.248 ( talk) 18:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The Corvair was a piece of junk. It leaked oil all of the time. It had an aluminum engine
which wore out in record time. It has to be taken care of like a baby or it would kill you via fumes, crush you if you were hit from the front, set you on fire if you were hit from behind.
I lived through that era. I was well aware of the many, many problems related to the Corvair. The only people who owned
them didn't own them very long because consistant problems.
The real problem with the Covair was that Ralph Nader took entirely too long to bring out his book "Unsafe at any Speed". Too many people died driving this death car. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.87.107 ( talk) 06:40, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I cannot believe the Corvair was any worse than other American cars of its size. I am certain you were just as unsafe in
a Falcon, Chevy II, Valiant or Lark. The Corvair's superiority on the road was its ability to steer where you pointed it,
in contrast to its contemporaries.
My '69 Monza is a dream to drive, doesn't leak anything, and takes me reliably back and forth to work day in, day out, five
days a week, 52 weeks a year...Bill H. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.247.27.244 (
talk)
03:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Somehow too many unread ranting idiots are allowed to post on these pages....no...too many people werent killed....unfortunately the stupid ones survived and procreated begatting more inbred stupidity....leaving the world in its current pathetic state. Nowadays, merely stating something makes it fact...true are not. Please read the real history of Corvair (btw, the only car ever proved safe to drive on US roads) and do not depend on this Wiki stuff, because what most people know isn't that much. John —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.23.25.103 ( talk) 05:36, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Why hasn't anybody created a chapter on this article about the Corvan 95 commercial vans, Greenbrier passenger vans, Rampside pickups, and Loadside pickups? ---- DanTD ( talk) 19:56, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Somehow too many unread ranting idiots are allowed to post on these pages....no...too many people werent killed....unfortunately the stupid ones survived and procreated begatting more inbred stupidity....leaving the world in its current pathetic state.
Nowadays, merely stating something makes it fact...true are not. Please read the real history of Corvair (btw, the only car
ever proved safe to drive on US roads) and do not depend on this Wiki stuff, because what most people know isn't that much.
Why is it impossible to fix the "Production notes" chapter? 1963 doesn't want to fix. ---- DanTD ( talk) 01:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
The article is ripe for a new editing team. FWiW Bzuk ( talk) 18:18, 28 February 2009 (UTC).
Someone should mention the Corvair engine was very popular in kit planes and Benson Copters. It had about the same weihght, and nearly the horespower, of a Lycoming flat six, while being MUCH cheaper. The Corvair flies again! Tintinteslacoil 02:18, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I've seen lots of articles about swapping a small block chevvy into the rear of a Corvair or even a Porsche 911/912. Apparently it can work pretty well, not an abomination to drive. Of course, the mid-engine gives much better balance, but at the cost of the rear seat. Installing a radiator in the front helps combat the rear weight bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.227.251 ( talk) 19:01, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Offhand, I can't source it, but C&D criticized Nader for ignoring the need of drivers to cope with changes in driving style when operating the Corvair, not least keeping the rear tires properly inflated. None of the issues Nader raised were problems among owners of the 911, which had the same layout (& similar suspension, IIRC), nor with the Type 1 (tho, granted, it was much less powerful). This needs to be addressed, IMO. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 12:59, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
The handling section does not clarify what the danger of oversteer is or indicate clearly the options that can ameliorate oversteer potential. The section fails to clearly designate tire pressure differential as a specific strategy used on the Corvair etc. The section now duplicates information on Nader, from the Reportage section.
Instead of protecting "my edits," (See WP:Ownership), clarity and communication need to prevail. Let's see if we can collaborate to improve the article. Isn't this much more clear and succinct:
842U ( talk) 17:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
I've rewritten the intro to reflect the car's legacy and mildly introducing the basic facts around its controversy. I've structured the First Generation handling controversy and handling characteristics together -- as these are probably the most salient aspect of the Corvair.
The sections related to reception includes some widely sourced criticism... and then there is a criticism section related to two specific (unsourced) areas of focus: the steering column and the heater exhaust entering the car: it seems like these could be handled with a sentence and not whole sections. Thoughts? 842U ( talk) 13:16, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
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There's a line in this section about a Ford test driver purposely mishandling a Corvair, with a cite given to Unsafe at Any Speed. Nothing in Nader's book says anything about deliberate mishandling. This phrase needs to be cited or removed. It's a pretty strong accusation against and individual or business organization. ThatSaved ( talk) 19:36, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
I read: "The first Corvair engine produced 80 hp (60 kW)". Being the owner of a 1960 model, I wanted to know what the real power is according to most recent standards. In 1960, engine power in the US was bhp (brake horse-power),according to SAE standard. In the '70s, the standard was changed to be more realistic and the "new" hp was @ 80% of bhp. Using conversions tables I could finalize the sequence: 80 hp (bhp) = 64 hp (SAE) = 65 hp (DIN) = 47.7 kW (not 60 kW). Am I right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.29.166.151 ( talk) 18:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
GM also had a concept of a Corvair rebadged as an Oldsmobile 66. I can't find proof of that though, because the website that had it is gone, and as far as I know Internet Archives either can't or doesn't want to revive it. --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 15:39, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
It says that the first generation Pontiac Tempest, Olds F-85 and Buick Special are related to the Chevy Corvair. I don't understand how they're related. To me, that's not possible because the Corvair had an air-cooled engine in the back, whereas the other three all had water-cooled engines in the front. Furthermore, the Corvair was built on the GM Z platform while the others were built on the GM Y platform. I also discussed this on the Talk:Pontiac Tempest page. I don't think that the Y-body cars are at all related to the Corvair. If they are, I would like for someone else to explain because I don't see any connection at all.-- Kevjgav ( talk) 12:52, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Chevrolet did not initially provide a convertible version of the Corvair in 1960/61. The concept and design for the convertible was purchased from a Chevrolet dealer in Vassar Michigan (Ray MacGillvary Chevrolet), who took a Corvair and just cut the top off. Initially done for fun, Ray MacGillvary's crew assembled a working, folding top. Chevy saw the result, and eventually negotiated the rights to manufacture from Ray.
Also, with the onset of winter in the area, and seeing the rear engined 'vair with a clean bottom, Ray's crew took the front wheels off a Corvair and ran it across the snow and up the snow banks of the dealership and presumably elsewhere. No comments as to how well the steering worked or how well the cowl under the front bumper held up. 50.172.36.144 ( talk) 04:25, 2 November 2014 (UTC)Ron Myers [1]
References
Over on the Chevrolet Nomad article you had this quote:
The Nomad's unique design had its roots in a General Motors Motorama show car of the same name that was based on the Corvette.
The Corvair was also originally a Corvette-based fastback from the same year. Why is this overlooked in the article? --------- User:DanTD ( talk) 01:35, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
This engineering difference should be added to the article. The Corvair engine rotation is clockwise looking at the flywheel, which at that time was the opposite rotation of all other major United States production automobile engines. I don't own a Corvair engine service and repair manual as my reference, so I can't add anything to the article myself.
Conversely, the Volkswagen Beetle and Microbus rear-mounted, air-cooled, flat opposed four-cylinder engines had counter-clockwise rotation looking at the flywheel, as did the similar Porsche air-cooled, flat opposed four and six-cylinder engines. Consequently, when Corvair engines were mounted in Volkswagens, a modification to the Volkswagen differential gears had to be done to correct the rotation, using the original Volkswagen gears. This engine swap was fairly common in the 1960s, and I knew two people who did it to their Volkswagen Microbuses. Linstrum ( talk) 04:03, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
The article currently states that the Corvair is the second production car offering a turbocharged engine, after the Oldsmobile Jetfire. This is an often debated topic, but it was long ago established that the Corvair was FIRST. The Olds was announced earlier, in August of 1961, but it did not make it to production until after the Corvair was being produced in March of 1962.
Both Chevrolet and Oldsmobile were working on Turbocharging programs in late 1961.There was a definite rivalry among divisions within GM. Chevrolet was always very secretive regarding their programs, and did not leak anything about the Corvair Turbocharging program. On the other hand Oldsmobile was not nearly as secretive and released some preliminary details of their turbocharging program in late 1961. This is the main reason many think Olds was first.
Now both programs were not anywhere near completion in 1961 and both Oldsmobile and Chevrolet produced Turbocharged "Pilot" show cars for the large and prestigious February 1962 Chicago Auto Show. The Oldsmobile Jetfire at the show was a hardtop, and the Corvair Spyder was a convertible. After the show ended Chevrolet immediately began production of both the new Convertible and Spyder Turbocharging option in early March 1962. Official announcement for both the Convertible and Spyder options was on March 27th 1962 which was several weeks after production began. The Convertible and Spyder option was then available to order in April 1962. Early production was primarily to supply showroom display cars to the thousands of Chevrolet dealers nationwide. These cars were to be displayed for several months before they could be sold.
Oldsmobile started production several weeks after the Corvair Spyder but also could be ordered by April 1962.
So it was practically a dead heat. Both developed around the same time. Both shown at the same time at the same Chicago show, and both available to order from the public in April 1962, but Chevrolet beat the Oldsmobile to production by several weeks so the Corvair Spyder is actually the first American Production car to have a turbocharger.
This information is sourced from GM documents and period automotive articles from March and April 1962 and information from the 1962 Chicago Auto Show among others sources. These scans of the April 1962 issue of Popular Science provide the definitive reference, as does the scan of a Spyder body tag from the same discussion. I will leave this here for now, but will change the article in the near future with this information, unless someone else objects or has evidence to the contrary. https://corvaircenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1173467#p1173467 Playerpage ( talk) 18:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)