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"Another team notable for its loyalty was Dale Coyne Racing, one of the world's oldest continually operating open wheel teams." Seriously? Scuderia Ferrari - 1950, McLaren - 1966, Penske Racing - 1968, Tyrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes - 1970, Williams - 1976, Foyt Enterprises - 1979, Toleman/Benetton/Renault/Lotus - 1981, Minardi/Scuderia Toro Rosso - 1985, Then Coyne sets up shop in 1986. Does being the 9th oldest team in a pretty small community really merit mentioning? -- SEWalk ( talk) 01:16, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
This sentence: "However with Champ Car on the rapid rise, it seems that in the very near future it will have no competition whatsoever." is rather silly and belittles other varieties of motorsports of many types. Competition from what? Will CHAMP become so popular that WRC is abandoned from lack of interest? On a wider point, is there even any truth in the statement? I deleted it anyway for now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.156.60.176 ( talk) 19:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC).
I have asked repeatedly that we place AAA, USAC, and CART history under their own categories. It is ridiculous to place this information under the Champ Car heading. Until this is done, I will continue to delete this history out of the Champ Car page on a regular basis.
CART, AAA, USAC, CART, and CHAMPcar have not all sanctioned the same series. That is legally incorrect and only your personal opinion. As long as this states that a Champ Car is short for the Champ Car World Series, all that other history is out and should be placed in separate articles for AAA, USAC, and CART.
Stop listing any history of Champ Car World Series with CART, USAC, or AAA. These series were not sanctioned by Champ Car. CART maybe can be part of the history because it was purchased by Champ Car...but USAC and AAA were not purchased by Champ Car and so their history is not able to be claimed.
I don't understand why the list of AAA and USAC champions was removed from the article. The person who removed them said it was because "CART did not sanction those titles", yet this article seems to be about Champ Car racing, and not specifically the CART sanctioning body, although a search for 'CART' does redirect to Champ Car. The AAA and USAC championships are generally considered the predecessors to the CART sanctioned championship, and the current Champ Car Championship, and the History section of this article does indeed include information about the AAA and USAC championships.
This article is somewhat misnamed; it's more about the championships and sanctioning bodies than about the cars. It ought to be split into at least two articles, and maybe three (depending on whether or not you split the championships and sanctioning bodies). But the cars definitely deserve a separate article. (And the content of IndyCars ought to be merged into the cars article.)
My suggestion is to work out how many article we want first, and what each will contain - we can work out the exact titles later. Noel (talk) 06:11, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Do you seriously suggest a new article? For what, every change in spec? Or do you N think ChampCars race at Indy? Where do you think "IndyCar" comes from? Someplace has to be a "root"; roadsters, Indycars, Champcars all come from the same beginnings. Trekphiler 14:14, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
How can an article with the title Champ Car not be about the car? Champ Car World Series should have its own article. As should CART, IRL, USAC, etc. The name Champ Car has a definite and demonstrable historical context. Regardless of changes in sanctioning bodies, today's Champ Cars trace their lineage and evolution directly back to a time when many of these organzations didn't even exist. Unknown Unknown time
Can someone who is a better editor than I take a look at the below paragraph in the 2007 Season section? I think it has a little bias / non-factual discussion that may not be appropriate for an encyclopedia discussion. I forgot what Wikipedia calls that particular violation. Specifically, the part about the open-wheel series' no longer being looked at as feeders to F1: the rival IndyCar series, as the author puts it, has NEVER fed any driver to F1, whereas this year's Champ Car champion IS going to F1. But I'm not even sure any of that should be pointed out here. In addition "it is hoped by many open-wheel racing fans"--???--does this kind of content really belong in an encyclopedia article rather than in some Forum or Newspaper?
Paragraph in question: "At present there is also some chatter regarding the reunification of Champ Car with its rival series, the IndyCar Series. It is hoped by many open-wheel racing fans that this merger of the two series (in respect of field sizes and television ratings) will secure the future of open-wheel racing in North America, whose racing landscape is currently ruled by the massively popular and more financially stable NASCAR. Moreover, the open-wheel series are no longer looked at as the top feeder to Formula One as they once were. A merger for the 2007 season will not happen; however, there is still speculation both sides will hopefully look again for future opportunities to resolve outstanding differences. Champ Car moving to the same network as the IndyCar Series could help to this end." 198.45.18.70 14:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 20:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Silly trivia: it's said the one difference between CART & the Taliban is, CART has 3 Americans. (None of them are quick enough to win in F1, unlike a Canadian I could name...) Trekphiler 08:21, 24 December 2005
"The performance superiority of the Formula One machines was first demonstrated in 1989" Obvious fanboy statement. I got a real laugh out of that. The example cited was an Indy type car on spec tires. Might as well have been an Indy type car vs. a F1 running on the rims. Terrible comparison anyway and the examples farther down show a much closer performance between the two types.
All comparisons of this nature will change from year to year as restrictions on performance to make the venues safer are imposed. Then there is the racing venue itself. You would expect an F1 car to be faster on a road course then a World Rally Championship car. Likewise a F1 car would likely not finish the Dakar Rally. In the same vein, if the contest was Indy car vs. F1 at Texas Motor Speedway, the Indy cars would win. Same would be true in reverse if the contest was held at Monaco GP.
Then you have to factor in the driver. I would argue that F1 attracts the best drivers at the top of their game. Trying to say a specific car is faster then another type when driven by a faster driver is not a logical conclusion.
I think my Ford pickup has performance superiority to both F1 and Indy cars because when I can carry a ton of bricks and a passenger while listening to the radio.<sic> 172.56.6.150 ( talk) 17:10, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I think changing "(since F1 imposed stricter engine specifications from 2006)" to "(since F1 switched to smaller engines for/from 2006)" would be a little more accurate
Counterfit
04:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Not being an expert in either formula, there were a few cases where I wasn't sure to which car the description applied. I can't make these changes myself without some research. Perhaps someone who already understands these differences would be interested in making this section a little clearer.
Great article, though. This section, in particular, was just what I've been looking for. A slightly clearer delineation is all I ask. Thanks
- Rockthing 16:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe the fact that the new Panoz DP-01 Champ Car has lapped Laguna Seca faster than a Toyota F1 car needs to be inserted in the comparison section. I'm sure how to word it best to fit it in here, though.
Lap times during CCWS spring training vs an F1 exhibition are two entirely different things. Its doubtful that Toyota dedicated anywhere near a full fortnight's worth of development work for that weekend as they would in a normal race or practice. Especially when you consider they told Zonta to "take it easy" per ref. 6. I could agree with the idea that even if it was only an exhibition, Toyota might have dedicated about as much money as Bourdais' team, and so his lap time should be given due respect. However, the Toyota still must be considered off-design. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.176.125 ( talk) 15:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
- I seem to recall that in 2002 when Champ Car first raced at Montreal (Circuit Gilles Villeneuve)
one of the talking points concerning lap time advantage for the F1 cars was that they still had a tyre war
going on; in Champ Car there was only one tyre maker and thus harder compounds. Yes, the F1 cars were likely to
still be quicker, but not by quite as much. Also, the 2006 lap time comparisons are a but skewed by the fact
the weather was not quite so nice for the Champ Car weekend. R H Pearson 14:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Please if any 1 can, can you fill in the champ car blanks on my user page please. MotorSportMCMXC 21:00, 20 July 2006
A note here: In the "bankruptcy" section, there are a few very glaring factual errors.
CART (stock ticker symbol MPH) as a company was put into banruptcy. A new company, Open Wheel Racing Series, purchased the assets of MPH (race contracts, race supplies, etc) from the bankrupt company, and also accepted to take on certain debts. "Champcar" and "CART" are two distinct and different series, and really merit two seperate wikipedia entries, as two very distinct entities, no different in the end from USAC and CART.
Methonal burns with an invisible flame. As such, it can be vary dangerous. I think a special section is needed to mention that and the precautions taken by safety crews. For instance, if you see a driver get out and start rolling around, he or she is presumed to be on fire.-- Will 07:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
the box on the side claims that this is a worldwide sport however it is referred to as american, perhaps North American would be better? MatthewMain 15:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
User 207.162.229.12 added " Champcar Hot News, Rumors, and Commentary" to the external link section. Since that section was strictly links to offical sites for the ChampCar series and races, I removed the link and brought it here for discussion.
It does not help that the user in question has been warned many times about vandalism and NPOV. Will ( Talk - contribs) 19:45, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes I believe the link does belong considering they insider information on Champ Car directly from the people who own and run it. They receive information regarding the series before anyone else on the street. I would add this site considering there very strong promotion of Champ Car, not to mention there long history with the organizing dating back before the IRL/Cart Split. I believe they are on the most definitive information of Champ Car news and rumors.
Proxu01
17:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
AR1 is a rumor site on par with a blog, no more and no less. It isn't an official site, that would be champcar.ws or similar. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
67.70.124.49 (
talk)
23:13, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
The phrase in question is "The Formula 1 grooved tyres are actually of a higher performance than the Champ Car tyres due to competition. The tyre manufacturers fight to produce a better tyre than the rival manufacturer in Formula 1, therefore making the grooved tyres of higher performance than Champ Car tyres."
Not only does that sound pro-F1 (or possibly anti-Champ Car), but it's also a little out dated. Does anyone else think it should be removed? Mustang6172 08:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes - It is quite dated now agreed to be moved. 15th March 2007
In the list of champions, the series is listed the the official full name at the time. I was fine with the listings by sanctioning body, but if we are going to do it this way, we need to get the names right, which is somewhat difficult.
I know in 2003, it was not Fedex championship series, it was CART Champ Car World series presented by bridgestone, or something like that.
I think 1997, and maybe later were PPG CART World Series, or something-- RA64 13:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
This article seems to contradict itself. The "Specifications" section lists the weight at 1385 pounds, while the "Comparison" section says the weight, with driver, is 1543 pounds. The rule book I have (from 2001) says the minimum weight is 1550 pounds at superspeedway courses, and 1525 pounds at other courses. Which is correct? Is it a matter of comparing dry, fuel-empty, and race-ready weights? -- Mikeblas 15:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
-- Neither is correct, and because of that both items have been replaced with up-to-date information from the 2007 season as of 04-04-07. With driver, the minimum weight for a 2007-spec Champ Car is currently 1741 lbs; that figure comes from 1575 lbs + the average driver weight, which this season is 166 lbs. Without the driver, each car's minimum weight is adjusted from 1575 lbs to reflect the variation of the driver's weight from the field average. The 2007 rulebook lists 1565 lbs as the target weight, but that has been changed to 1575 lbs via technical bulletin without re-publishing the rulebook. Ed Severson 13:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm hearing rumors that Champ Car will file for bankruptcy in 48 hours to facilitate a merger with the IRL. The forum I discovered this on claimed Autoracing1 as the source, but I can't access their rumor page. Does anyone have some kind of information to confirm this? Mustang6172 ( talk) 05:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind. Miller is reporting it now. Mustang6172 ( talk) 21:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
See: http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=10557 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 ( talk) 23:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I would like to add a link to the 7 post shaker article in the see also list (or another area if thats more appropriate). Please let me know if this is ok and I will add it sometime soon. Thanks!! Rooney McFaddy ( talk) 17:17, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Surely its time to move the name back to CART.
CART/Champcar as an entity is finished and for most of its life, it was known as CART. In fact, for 24 years of its 28 years it was known as CART. ManfromDelmonte ( talk) 14:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I came here, completely ignorant about racing, only as a result of a news article I had read. I've read the whole article, which is mainly a history, and remain somewhat confused. The article is essentially a history of the infighting in the racing world, yet there is only a single mention of NASCAR. Now I think that NASCAR uses a different kind of car than this kind of racing, but it's simply not clear. There were a couple of references to something called an "open wheel" car, which I guess is this car's type, but that's not made very clear, I think.
The point is, the article comes across as written by very knowledgeable editors, but I'm constantly feeling like there are assumptions being made about what the reader knows. And not everyone who comes here is a fan. Please try to educate those of us who are ignorant. Thanks. Unschool ( talk) 17:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi guys!
I added in the champions overview the sanctioning bodies and corrected a wrong series title.
But I'm not sure how you call the body for ChampCar after 2003. CART was bankruptcy. Was it OWRS, CCWS or something else?
However, I think it would be nice, to seperate this article. CART should get its own article. After 2003 ChampCar took over, but had in fact nothing to do with CART.
regards Karl (19.07.2008) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.78.139.228 ( talk) 12:29, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
My sense of history is that "the split" started in 1978 with the White Paper. Before that, there was one "Indy" sanctioning body, and after the incorporation of CART, there were two. The fact is that there were two (okay, three if you count the Championship Racing League?) until 2008. Therefore, what is called "split" in this article is not "THE SPLIT" but rather the formation of the IRL out of the Indy/USAC bones. Therefore, I'm proposing that we have a few naming changes of the sections in this article. Twohlford ( talk) 19:30, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
The CART logo would be good, since for most of it's history it was known as CART. 76.66.196.218 ( talk) 05:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was consensus against move.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 13:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I feel the current article needs to be updated with more of a focus on the history of CART pre-split. Right now the article is almost entirely focused on post-1995 CART and Champ Car. Froo ( talk) 12:16, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
I have been working on an updated nav box, similar to the two for USAC, for indycar/cart/ccws. The link is here. Let me know what you think or the proper way to roll this out. I feel as an unbiased group we should format all of the AOWR sanctioning body navigational information into a similar format to each other. This is mainly (IMO) to ease navigation through all off the years and information in a smart repeatable way so people (not just fans but anyone) curious about finding more knowledge can find everything they are looking for. Ehall317 ( talk) 01:21, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: No consensus. Kept as dab concept for now. — Amakuru ( talk) 12:40, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Champ Car →
Championship Auto Racing Teams – I'd propose renaming the page, as CART/Championship Auto Racing Teams was a) the intial name of the organization; b)the name that was used the longest by the organization; c)"Champ car" was never an official name of the organization; d)CART was the acronym most associated with the organization when it was a stand alone entity.
Knoper (
talk) 02:12, 24 September 2018 (UTC) --Relisting.
Dreamy Jazz 🎷
talk to me |
my contributions
20:12, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
OK, we have pictures of a March, a Lola, a Reynard, and a Panoz; one driver each of Brazil, the UK, Canada, the US, and Mexico; and one Honda, two Cosworth, one Mercedes, one Chevrolet.
Not to pat myself on the back, but I think it's a good mix. :-) Open to changes, of course. Knoper ( talk) 03:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) NNADIGOODLUCK ( Talk| Contribs) 22:30, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Champ Car → Championship Auto Racing Teams – Now that the page has been fleshed out, going to again suggest a move of this page to Championship Auto Racing Teams or CART, and the creation of a separate page for the Champ Car (04-07) organization, which was owned by a separate legal entity. While both shared the same series history, CART was fundamentally different in structure. Knoper ( talk) 03:20, 10 January 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. — Amakuru ( talk) 12:45, 27 January 2020 (UTC)