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Article originally from 1911 enc.
Frankly, I don't see the point of pasting in stuff from the 1911 encyclopedia. You find it all over Wikipedia and some of it is really bad. In any case, it's all available on the web already so what's the point of reproducing it here?
I agree with you basically, but what we have here is better than nothing, I think (this perhaps isn't always the case with 1911 articles though). Feel free to write an article of your own to replace the 1911 text. --
Camembert
You would say that, wouldn't you! I'm not qualified to do it. But I think my point about 1911 already being on the web is valid.
BevRowe 18:43 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)
I agree that this article is better than nothing, but its origin really does show, and not always in a good way. E.g.:
1. "The music was far more coherent than is possible in the Anglican church." (ok for 1911 Britannica, but parochial for wikipedia)
2. "There has, perhaps, been only one kind of cantata since Bach which can be recognized as an art form and not as a mere title for works otherwise impossible to classify." (very POV)
And finally:
3. "Brahms has probably said the last word on this subject." (POV and dated)
Bach's congregation did not sing along with the final chorale -- this is a Romantic-era myth that has long been dispelled and no serious Bach scholar argues that this occured. The problem is finding a cite for this. Because no serious Bach scholar believes it, they don't really bother taking the time to specifically refute it (as just one among many Romantic-era myths of Bach and his musical practices). However, I think the entire section that mentions that could be justifiably removed since it's mostly a NPOV defense of Bach's cantatas against phantom (uncited) allegations that the final chorale represents an anticlimax.
The writer who didn't sign is right twice: the congregation didn't join singing the chorale, and the Bach section is covered in
Bach cantata and could be shortened here. Talking about myths: in
BWV 172 Bach himself marked to repeat the opening chorus after the chorale, that was in 1714 when he was young. (DYK 7 April 2010) --
Gerda Arendt (
talk)
11:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)reply
"Cantata"
It is problematic that this article does not mention the fact that Bach and his German contemporaries and predecessors did not normally call their church pieces cantatas. The term was used in Italy for secular vocal pieces and was applied as a catchall category in the latter half of the 19th century to German baroque sacred vocal pieces that were typically "geistliche Konzerte" (pl. or "geistliches Konzert (sing.)) by their composers. Any good article on the topic, such as the one at Grove Music Online, will mention that calling these works cantatas is a convenient convention, but not what baroque German composers called them. --
HenryPurcell (
talk)
13:26, 6 July 2017 (UTC)reply
The example OGG files are a little confusing. They seem to be solely instrumental, but the article goes on at great length about the vocal aspect of a cantata. --
Gwern (contribs) 19:52 12 January 2010 (GMT)
The music files now have vocals, but they might benefit from moving to another place on the page. Currently they are between the 'Differences from other musical forms' and 'Baroque' sections. Maybe they should be moved to the Baroque section, since both examples are from that era?
CelloCello1 (
talk)
00:05, 10 December 2019 (UTC)reply
According to that linked article, "MacArthur Park" is not a cantata in itself but, rather, one movement of a cantata. The article fails to say anything further about the complete cantata (how many movements, what was the title, etc.), which seems a pity.—
Jerome Kohl (
talk)
01:21, 9 June 2018 (UTC)reply