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I'm a bit confused by what makes this man notable. His development of the Carmel Valley or his film job? I'm not questioning his notability (at least, not yet), but the article doesn't seem to go into detail on why we have an article on him.
Griffinofwales (
talk) Simple English Wikipedia - Come and join!13:45, 1 November 2010 (UTC)reply
notability answer
Byington Ford was a major force in developing Pebble Beach, Carmel Woods, and the Carmel Valley Village and airfield. He created the Carmel Realty Company. He was a baseball player and coach in the Carmel Abalone League and acted in and directed over 45 plays in Carmel. He was a major part of the social circle in the Monterey Peninsula. His ancestry dates back to the French Huguenots.
Greg Henderson 17:31, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Added the requested phrase and reference. But I am not certain that the lack of notability warrants keeping the template for more debate.
Ferkijel (
talk)
22:04, 29 March 2021 (UTC)reply
This is a story about Tirey Lafayette Ford, and his rise from a schoolboy in Missouri to coming to California and getting his law degree, becoming District Attorney, California State Senator, and then Attorney General. Since Tirey accomplished so many things in his lifetime, I felt it was important to write them down as part of our family history. His son, Byington Ford was my grandfather. We corresponded through letters in the later years of his life. Byington was also a remarkable man who served in two world wars, helped develop Pebble Beach, the Carmel Valley airport, and the Carmel Valley Village in California.
@
0mtwb9gd5wx: Yes, they are similar. I am the author of both. I also have a book on Amazon dealing with the same subjects. There is a Wikipedia disclaimer on the issuu.com and Amazon books, e.g. The text of this page is available for modification and reuse under the terms of the: Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 3.0 Unported License and the GNU Free Documentation License (unversioned, with no invariant sections, front-cover texts, or back-cover texts). Let me know if this helps to answer your question? --
Greg Henderson (
talk)
15:12, 1 September 2021 (UTC)reply
This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
Comment: COI/U added it into the article as a "minor edit" on his own despite advise against making direct edits into articles on which he has a COI in numerous prior discussions, so I removed it. @
Melcous and
Possibly:Graywalls (
talk)
21:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)reply
If you look at the article history, the image was added by
0mtwb9gd5wx as an external image. I simply replaced the image with the same image already in Wikimeida Commons, which is why it was a minor edit.
Graywalls removed the image claiming COI, which is the reason for this Request Edit, to put the image back in. --
Greg Henderson (
talk)
22:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Request Edit D
This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
Information to be added or removed: Please remove the tags: Multiple issues: COI and Notability
Explanation of issue: Editor has citation for notability (see above). COI has already been listed on Talk:Byington Ford page and on Greg's user page.
References supporting change: Byington Ford was a major force in developing Pebble Beach, Carmel Woods, and the Carmel Valley Village and airfield. He was an early founder of the Carmel Realty Company. He was a baseball player and coach in the Carmel Abalone League and acted in and directed over 45 plays in Carmel. See main article for citations. Below are a select view.[1][2][3]
This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
Could you consider removing the Notability tag? Per
WP:SIRS, it's been quite a few years since it was added. The citations provided below offer substantial and in-depth coverage directly related to the article's subject. They're independent of the subject and meet the reliability standard for sourcing. These citations cater to regional audiences, specifically those in
Monterey County, California. Here's a list of secondary sources for
Byington Ford:
Monterey County: The Dramatic Story of its Past[1]
Also, a coverage like another example of mora modeling his sculpture after living people is the series of bronze figures he made of the three daughters of "Bying and Mairon Ford of Pebble Beach is of no addition to notability than a sculpture of pineapple of aisle 3 from Albertson's of hickville, nowhere adds to notability of that particular pineapple.
Graywalls (
talk)
23:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)reply
If these are to be considered, the list of "secondary sources" ought to have isbn's or oclc's attached to them. Many of the links are archival urls. They should also be formatted using {{
cite book}} without the ref tag, that way the |isbn= parameter can be easily included (and the template easily filled out - although not always with older isbn's, but that's another topic for another forum. Stick to the Worldcat URL to easily populate the template's parameters). Regards,
Spintendo03:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Bibliography / References (depending on its use in the article)
Barratt, Elizabeth (2010). Images of America Carmel Valley. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Publishing. p. 107.
ISBN9780738571621.
OCLC712588705.
Cardwell, Kenneth H. (1983). Bernard Maybeck: artisan, architect, artist. Salt Lake City: Gibbs M. Smith, Inc. p. 183.
ISBN9780879051488.
OCLC9927889.
Fink, Augusta (2000). Monterey County: The Dramatic Story of its Past. Valley Publishers. p. 202.
ISBN9780913548622.
OCLC5771731.
Frost, John W. (2007). Monterey Peninsula's sporting heritage. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub. p. 15.
ISBN9780738555898.
OCLC166367432.
Hale, Sharron Lee (1980). A Tribute to Yesterday: The History of Carmel, Carmel Valley, Big Sur, Point Lobos, Carmelite Monastery, and Los Burros. Santa Cruz: Valley Publishers. pp. 48, 59, 79, 112, 185.
ISBN9780913548738.
OCLC7244103.
Not knowing what any of these books are for, or why they're being listed here, I figure a "catchall" section like Biblio would probably work best (for me to use in my example above — what you're wanting to use it for though might need another title like References, I can't say for sure.).
Spintendo06:21, 29 December 2023 (UTC)reply
I added OCLC's to this list. I like OCLC's because they tell you more about a publication than mere ISBN's do. Specifically, with the oclc's link, you can see which libraries around the world use the source, which is oftentimes salient information that can guide people on how to judge a publication. And by libraries, I mean academic libraries as opposed to public libraries, which can and do stock really anything. FWIW, in my opinion the 2 strongest from the list are the ones published by Arcadia, which is a worldwide house that specializes in local histories. Local historians have a lot going for them, they usually live in the areas they write about, they work in colleges in the area so they have access to resources that the colleges have access to, and thus their knowledge is vastly more genuine than those historians like the author Tobin - he writes good history books (the one on Patty Hearst comes to mind) but he doesnt live in SF — he comes to town, writes the book, and leaves, and thus may miss out on details (and his writing is journalism-oriented rather than academic social studies-oriented — a world of difference.)
Spintendo06:37, 29 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Hyper-local things are of course going to cover hyper local things in great depth. Club news letters' in depth coverage about club members, student paper's in-depth coverage about students serving on student government. Township rag sheets talking in depth about what little businesses the little town has to offer. It's not very probable the COI user's grandpa, great grandpa, and numerous family members just all happen to be Wiki notable. People whose basis of notability is confined to hyper-local sphere where everyone-knows-everyone where everyone writes about each other may not pass
WP:ANYBIO. Pinging @
Netherzone and
Melcous: for comment.
Graywalls (
talk)
08:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)reply
My thoughts on the matter: this article and associated articles, are part of the creator's original
WP:Walled Garden on his extended family and is also part of a second walled garden on the town where he lives, Carmel/Carmel By-the-Sea/Carmel Valley, and that other editors should use caution when reviewing edit requests.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)reply
@
Graywalls: Of the sources I singled out as being the best here, Barratt and Frost, neither of those fit your definition of being hyper-local sphere where everyone-knows-everyone where everyone writes about each other, so this observation certainly shouldn't have come from anything I've said. Both of those publications discuss photographs and postcards relevant to the region, and thus, offer straight historiography about the area which is not-easily assailable. Both authors are California locals who are familiar with California-topics. Frost, who has a doctorate in History, is much more reliable when discussing historically-significant California photographs than an author whose interest and experience was in, for example New Jersey, might be. As I stated earlier, it was unknown to me what the purpose of this listing of publications was for ("Not knowing what any of these books are for, or why they're being listed here..."); I was merely commenting on the strength of the sources listed therein.[a] And while I feel that your observation was misplaced, I do agree with your general sentiment along those lines, in that a dubious sort of reference material does exist in the publications-realm, and that those sources ought to be assiduously avoided.
Notes
^The COI editor stated in their request The citations provided below offer substantial and in-depth coverage directly related to the article's subject but then they failed to identify the "direct relation" that these sources have and/or had with any particular text within the Wikipedia article. That left their listing of them in the request "floating" — leaving reviewers (like me) to wonder "Should they be tied to existing text? Or tied to desired text?" This is because every proposal submitted here on the talk page needs to be tied to state of affairs — either an existing state of affairs that the COI editor proposes to be changed, or a desired state of affairs that the COI editor proposes to be implemented — one of those two things. The COI editor failed to specify either, so the list of sources they placed in their request ended up "floating" — leaving me to wonder why they were being mentioned in the first place.
In response to a
note added to my talk page, my main concern with the inclusion of
this material, is that it may put undue emphasis on biographical aspects the article subject wishes to highlight about themselves if it hasn't been covered by independent sources. Of course, if a consensus can be gained for its inclusion, I'm willing to yield to that.
Left guide (
talk)
03:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The material in question:
He went on to get his master's from the
University of California at Berkeley, graduating in 1913, where he earned his
Master of Arts degree. The thesis for his master's degree was A History of the County Court of England from 1066-1307.
Are you saying it's undue that he graduated from University? This is standard biographical factual information. We would find it in any article, typically in a section called "Education". The cited source verifies the information. Per
WP:PRIMARY there is nothing wrong with that. It's published by a "reputable publisher" and therefore presumed accurate. --
GreenC05:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)reply
You have some fair points. Honestly, the description of his thesis is what seems excessive and undue. Maybe a workable compromise is to restore a simple straightforward version like this:
Still not convinced, a catalog listing and online library entry do little to demonstrate that this material is
WP:DUE.
WP:NOTCATALOG and
WP:NOTDATABASE are clearly applicable here. For example, if there's a newspaper article discussing this book directly and in-depth, that would go a long way in demonstrating dueness.
Left guide (
talk)
09:03, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Edit Request - Notes
This
edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.
Add under Notes, where it says "citation needed" the following citations:[3][4]
Comment: the notes section is merely a transclusion of the note being invoked elsewhere in the article using the efn template, since it has the notelist template. Where exactly is the note being invoked in the article? I'm unable to find it.
Left guide (
talk)
00:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Not done: The sources show that he was a captain/commander and Lieutenant colonel but doesn't say that he was discharged/re-enlisted. EncodedTalk 💬22:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks @
Encoded: for trying to complete this request. I've reopened it here to provide clarification.
For the statement in infobox: "Discharged from command-rank of Captain and re-enlisted at rank of Lieutenant colonel.citation needed"
This
edit request by an editor with a partial block from editing this page has now been answered.
Add the following text after the 2nd paragraph under the Post-war section:
During August 1934, Byington Ford was a member of the executive committee of Carmel’s American Legion Post No. 512, actively involved as the post sought its provisional charter.[1] On July 9, 1935, he was elected post commander.[2][3]
This would cause "Discharged from command-rank of Captain and re-enlisted at rank of Lieutenant colonel." to be restored, which was noted "citation needed". Is it cited? Where did this statement come from? If uncited, it should be purged, not restored.
Graywalls (
talk)
19:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)reply