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Is there a standard on namings of court cases involving italics? -- Zoe
[The title of 'Tax Protestor Rhetoric' is inflammatory and violates the "neutral point-of-view" guideline that serves as the second of Wikipedia's "Five Pillars", so I changed it to something neutral -- Flytrapper 00:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
The article states that the 16th amendment removes the requirement of apportionment for income taxes. This is wrong. It never was removed. [Editor's note: False. See below. Famspear 21:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC) ]How do I know this? Stanton vs Baltic Mining ( http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=240&invol=103 ) This Surpreme court case is oddly missing from the court case index in this site. When read with this one, it settles this dispute. Both the Brushaber and Standon cases were decided the same day by the Same court. Stanton came second, making numerous references to the Brushaber decision.
We should get the Stanton page up and re-evaluate the claims made by this article.
From Stanton vs Baltic Mining: "by [Brushaber] it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged, and being placed [240 U.S. 103, 1"13] in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the income was derived.
The Brushaber case is quite specific that an income tax MUST be an indirect, more specifically, an excise tax. [Editor's Note: False. See below. Famspear 21:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)] The an excise tax can't be imposed by the federal government arbitrarily and willy-nilly. Indeed, it cannot be imposed upon anything but either the exercise of federally-engendered PRIVILEGE *or* federally-SOURCED income. [Editor's note: False. See below. Famspear 21:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)] What CANNOT be federally-excise-taxed is any activity to which (or stemming from which) a citizen has a Constitutionally-recognized and -protected RIGHT--such as the right to sell his labor for remuneration in the private sector. Remuneration for private-sector work simply is not federally excise taxable. [Editor's Note: False. See below. Famspear 21:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC) ] It can only be taxed directly, and thus would be subject to the rule of apportionment. [Ed. note: False after the 16th Am. See below. Famspear 21:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)] Direct taxation under constitutional constraints has always been too cumbersome for DC. Hence ALL FEDERAL TAXES ARE, AND HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME, INDIRECT (MOSTLY EXCISE) TAXES. [Ed. note: False. See below. Famspear 21:38, 23 December 2005 (UTC)] But remuneration from private-sector work is not federally excise-taxable. This is the law, and it is actually how the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) and U.S. Title 26 are written. Yet private-sector companies continue to issue erroneous W-2's (committing perjury in the process) and workers continue to fail to rebut these erroneous filings, and thus are presumed to have actually received federally-privileged income--which, indeed, is excise taxable by the federal government.
As we can see it is obvious by this quote that income taxation is indirect (and not in deed of apportionment), and notby direct taxation in need of apportionment. Also no third class of taxation was created - the direct but not apportioneded income tax. ***But see above***: Federal excise taxation of private-sector remuneration-for-labor is not constitutional.
Dear Dscotese: At the expense of appearing to defend user flytrapper (who I do not intend to defend), and for the purpose of explaining my own use of bolding and other forms of emphasis (which I do intend to explain), I argue that using bolding is not confusing or rude in this context. Honesty and power in writing comes not so much from the use (or non-use) of bolded fonts, but rather from the skill used in implementing the expression and the writer's awareness of the underlying truth of what is being expressed. Famspear ( talk) 17:15, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
The wording seems to imply that a direct non apportioned tax is implemented. On a second reading it could be read as only describing excise taxes. It should be asserted that income taxes are indirect, that is why they need not be apportioned. See the !6th Amendment wiki for more on this.
New Misunderstanding Sighting: Recently, I've found some tax protesters pointing to this decision as the basis for a different reading on the law. In particular, the claim is that this decision permitted the US to tax nonresidents alien. Supposedly, Treasury Decision 2313 contained the following comments (I can find no reliable online sources for this however): "To collectors of internal revenue: Under the decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railway [sic] Co., decided January 24, 1916, it is hereby held that income accruing to nonresident aliens in the form of interest from the bonds and dividends on the stock of domestic corporations is subject to the income tax imposed by the act of October 3, 1913." The claim here is that Brushaber listed his residence as New York with his business in Manhattan; he was a citizen of New York and was not consequently a citizen of the United States. He was therefore a nonresident alien. Since the Brushaber decision does not refute these claims, the court treated him as a nonresident alien but he was subject to the right of taxation nonetheless and this reading is reinforced by TD2313. The trick, then, for these tax protesters is to prove that their sources of income derive from places not inside the United States (similar logic claims this, too) and since they are nonresident aliens of the U.S., they are not subject to taxation. The only way to be taxed, they say, is to work and live either in D.C, Puerto Rico or on federal grounds. 00:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know who is responsible for providing the information within this article, but apparently they haven't read the Brushaber case, if they had, they would have noticed the following language:
"We are of opinion, however, [240 U.S. 1, 11] that the confusion is not inherent, but rather arises from the conclusion that the 16th Amendment provides for a hitherto unknown power of taxation; that is, a power to levy an income tax which, although direct, should not be subject to the regulation of apportionment applicable to all other direct taxes. And the far-reaching effect of this erroneous assumption will be made clear. . ."
Notice the Court's language of "erroneous"? Furthermore the "direct tax," unapportioned, was with respect to the source derived. A specific tax with general application. Read the case that you have hyperlinked on your own site.
From Famspear To Flytrapper and all editors
Dear Flytrapper
In your recent edits you don't state what you feel is incorrect about the article as written. I have found no errors in the language that you deleted. I also argue that some of your edits are incorrect, as explained below.
You indicated that the Brushaber case is constantly misunderstood by "those who refer to constitutional adherents as tax protesters." I argue that your statement is incorrect.
First, tax protesters, to the extent they make arguments about the constitutionality of the tax, are generally arguing that the tax is unconstitutional. By definition, tax protester arguments on constitutionality are not only without legal merit, the arguments are also legally frivolous. This is not merely my position or conclusion. The courts have so ruled without exception for the past 30 years. Indeed, the frivolousness of the arguments is what makes them "tax protester arguments."
This is an astonishing record. Since 1975, when the term "tax protester" was first used in reported decisions in the way we're using it, I have not found and, to the best of my knowledge, no one else has ever found, a reported Federal court decision in which a tax protester argument was ever ruled to be correct. Every single time I have seen a passage in tax protester literature that says that the tax protesters won some particular tax protester argument, the claim has turned out to be false.
Second, the supposed "misunderstanding" you believe exist stems, you say, from the erroneous belief that the Brushaber decision relieves taxes on incomes from the rule of uniformity.
I agree that such a belief would certainly be erroneous -- there's just one problem with your statement. I have never heard anybody make the argument that the Brushaber court ruled that way! Not even the tax protesters make that kind of argument! You seem to be attributing the "misunderstanding" not to the tax protesters, but to those who disagree with the tax protesters (i.e., legal scholars, lawyers, CPAs, the courts, etc.)!
More specifically, the uniformity rule is the rule that excises (i.e., indirect taxes, such as income taxes other than taxes on income from property) must be imposed with geographical uniformity.
Obviously, the Brushaber court never ruled that excises do not have to be geographically uniform. Indeed, that was not even one of the issues presented to the court in the case.
The court did refer to the uniformity rule -- because Mr. Brushaber had talked about it in one of his arguments. But neither Mr. Brushaber nor the railroad company nor the government were really disagreeing about the point that the uniformity rule applies to excises.
It may not be obvious to you, but I assure you it's unlikely anybody (tax lawyer or tax protester) would argue that Brushaber stands for the proposition that excises do not have to be imposed with geographical uniformity. Again, I've never even heard a tax protester make that argument. (I'm not saying it's never happened -- it's just I can't remember ever seeing it, and more importantly it wouldn't make sense for tax protester or anyone else to argue that Brushaber stands for the proposition that Congress could impose an income tax in, say, only New York and Montana -- and not impose the same tax in all the other states.)
Bottom line: If legal scholars were to misunderstand Brushaber as ruling that excises did not have to be uniform, legal scholars would in effect be saying Brushaber stands for the proposition that Congress could validity enact an excise that was imposed only in some states but not others! I have studied the Federal income tax laws for 29 years and I cannot remember ever seeing anyone make such an argument, especially not a tax lawyer, CPA, law professor, or IRS employee. If someone has ever made such an argument, they would be in a very, very small minority.
Next, your comments in the talk page to the effect that the term "tax protester" shouldn't be used are, I argue, off base. "Tax protester" is a term that has negative connotations, and some people undoubtedly become very angry when the term is used to describe them. Congress in 1998 passed a law forbidding IRS employees from using the term in IRS documents.
However, using the term in Wikipedia does not violate the rule against non-neutral point of view. Indeed, "tax protester" is still a technical legal term used constantly by the courts to describe arguments against the Federal income tax that are not only legally meritless, but which have been repeatedly ruled meritless. When courts or others use the term "meritless" or "without merit" or "frivolous" to describe the tax protesters' arguments, that probably makes the protesters very angry as well. However, these are formal legal terms. In Wikipedia, we do not censor ourselves with respect to the use of legal terminology merely because the use of that terminology offends people. Sorry. (I note that you did not actually delete the term "tax protester" from the article itself, and I commend you on that.)
Regarding your statement that the Court's decisions repeatedly assert that income taxation inherently belongs in the category of indirect tax -- yes, this is very close to be correct. In Brushaber the court used terminology very close to that. However, the Court also said that it was not overturning the Pollock ruling that tax on income from one particular source -- namely, income from property -- was a direct tax. What the Brushaber court essentially said was that the Sixteenth Amendment made the dichotomy legally irrelevant. If you want, I can quote the exact wording from the decision.
I am currently working on the history of the Brushaber case and I may actually be making further edits on this article. You are correct that this decision is "misunderstood" -- however, I argue that your edits muddied the water a bit more, rather than clarifying.
Any comments? Yours, Famspear 20:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Post-script from Famspear: I'd like to point out that many tax protesters have been unhappy with my edits here in Wikipedia. If I were simply trying to refute tax protester arguments, and if I wanted to support any argument that opposed tax protester arguments, it would have been easy for me not to question your statement that income taxation inherently belongs in the category of indirect tax. Indeed, the Brushaber court stated almost exactly that very thing. That statement would tend to support the assertion that an income tax law (after the 16th Amendment) is not subject to the rule of apportionment -- a rule of law which I know to be correct. Had I been dishonest, I could have simply let that statement stand in the article. But what the court was saying -- if you read the entire case -- was that the 16th Amendment did not change the Pollock ruling that income taxes on income from property were treated as direct taxes. The court was essentially saying that AS A GENERAL RULE ("generically" I think was the word the court used) an income tax is an excise, but that income taxes on income from property were still direct taxes -- because of Pollock. The Brushaber case, to be very specific, means in this context that IT NO LONGER MATTERS. The plain language of the Amendment says income taxes on income FROM WHATEVER SOURCE DERIVED (meaning income from property, income from labor, etc.,) may be imposed without apportionment, etc. Neither the amendment nor the court in Brushaber stated that income taxes on income from property were specifically re-denominated as indirect taxes in the way they were denominated prior to the Pollock decision.
Brushaber is a difficult case to read. It contains archaic language and periphrasis, or circumlocutory expression. It contains language that can certainly result in confusion. But I assure you that the meaning of Brushaber can be distilled if we study it long enough.
By the way, there is some argument that the Pollock decision -- that income taxes on income from property were direct taxes -- was essentially eviscerated by a decision rendered AFTER Brushaber. That is a separate point. In other words, you might make the argument that TODAY all income taxes are considered indirect taxes (I don't really care right now). I'm just saying that the Brushaber court did not make that specific ruling. Yours, Famspear 23:01, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey there, Famspear, thanks much for taking the time to state your case so clearly. Ironically, that is ultimately the problem I have with the article. Namely, that it is *your* case, and nowhere relies on specific cites from the Brushaber decision. While you do make convincing arguments in support of your interpretation, it is, nevertheless, an interpretation. I would think something striving to be an encyclopedia would be free from motivation and judgement, and rely specifically on that which is factually indisputable such as the text of the Court's decision.
You asked for specifics regarding the corrections I made to the article, and I do apologize for not having done so. I will attempt to rectify that here. In the first paragraph you state:
"and thus eliminated the need to determine whether the income tax was a direct tax or, alternatively, an excise (an indirect tax)."
This is completely false. Not only is there nothing anywhere in the Brushaber decision to support this belief, there is a clear an unequivocal refutation of such an interpretation:
"the contention that the Amendment treats a tax on income as a direct tax although it is relieved from apportionment and is necessarily therefore not subject to the rule of uniformity as such rule only applies to taxes which are not direct, thus destroying the two great classifications which have been recognized and enforced from the beginning, is also wholly without foundation"
The Brushaber decision in no way, shape or form relieves Congress from having to distinguish between direct and indirect taxes. The contention that the Amendment treats income tax as a direct tax is wholly without foundation. Brushaber, through the text of the Court's own writing, clearly supports that the ditinction between direct and indirect remains relevant.
This citation from the Court's ruling also completely contradicts the "Holding" section of the article, so that has been changed as well.
If you disagree with this reading, I would appreciate it if you would provide a citation from the Brushaber decision that I may have overlooked.
As for the term "tax protester", if you do mean to use it in the legal sense, then cite at least one case by directly quoting a Court decision that referred to a plaintiff as a "tax protester". Or, alternatively, if the IRS has such a legal classification, clarifying it as an IRS term would be helpful.
For what it's worth, you and I probably agree that the overwhelming majority (if not all) of those who have challenged the federal income tax in the courts have based their challenges on misguided interpretations of Brushaber and Stanton. The popular misinterpretation I have seen throughout these court cases is that Brushaber deemed the income tax to be an excise tax. This is not true, and those who argue it in court invariably lose. The income tax is an indirect tax. And an excise tax is an indirect tax. But it does not follow that income taxes are excise taxes. It would be like saying all beagles are dogs; all poodles are dogs; therefore all beagles are poodles. And perhaps *that* misunderstanding belongs in the article.
However, I still maintain that there is still an important legal distinction between direct and indirect, and that the Brushaber decision explicitly recognizes that distinction.
-- 68.230.194.50 18:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Dear Flytrapper: Thanks for your comments. No offense, but we just aren't buying it. At any rate, as I previously said I am going to be working on some revision to the article, so I'll just let it rest for now (although I am contending that your verbiage is simply incorrect and mine is correct).
For now, you might want to be thinking about the following in connection with the article: You are contending that the language "and thus eliminated the need to determine whether the income tax was a direct tax or, alternatively, an excise (an indirect tax)" is completely false. Without getting back into what the court in Brushaber said at this point (we'll deal with it later, though), you might want to think about the implications of what you are saying. If there were still a need, in enacting Federal income tax legislation, to determine whether a particular income tax was "direct" or "indirect," why isn't this being done?
You say that the Brushaber decision "in no way, shape or form relieves Congress from having to distinguish between direct and indirect taxes. The contention that the Amendment treats income tax as a direct tax is wholly without foundation." If that were correct, why hasn't Congress been doing any "distinguishing" since 1913?
Since 1913, for example, income taxes on rental income, interest income, and dividend income have not been apportioned among the states according to population. Those are the classic examples of "income from property" that were ruled to be "direct taxes" in Pollock. How do you explain the fact that after the Sixteenth Amendment, we're not apportioning those taxes? We also don't apportion income taxes on income from wages. So, with respect to the lack of the need for apportionment, all those kinds of taxes are being treated the same. So, how is is that we are treating those kinds of income taxes the same as the income tax on wages, salaries, etc.? How do you explain that? If there were still a constitutional "need" to determine whether a particular kind of income tax is direct or indirect, how is it that the source of the income (whether from property or from labor) has not been considered in any tax legislation since 1913?
And how is it that every time a tax protester raises arguments about the Sixteenth Amendment, the tax protester loses? If you were correct, why wouldn't someone have won a case on your argument? Why is it that you don't see Congressman or the staff people that write the tax statutes saying "Oh, gee, we need to apportion interest income among the states according to population"?
You say you "still maintain that there is still an important legal distinction between direct and indirect, and that the Brushaber decision explicitly recognizes that distinction." If that were correct, why is it that 99.9999% of all the tax lawyers, the CPAs, the law professors, the Congressman, etc., have not recognized that "important legal distinction"? Do you really believe that there is a gigantic conspiracy? Do you really believe that the tax protesters, without formal legal or tax training, have figured it all out, and that 99.9999% of all tax lawyers, CPAs, law professors, etc. -- literally hundreds of thousands of people since 1913 -- are somehow "wrong" because they can't figure it out, or are somehow in some sort of conspiracy to protect their economic interests? What's your theory?
You say that the "popular misinterpretation I have seen throughout these court cases is that Brushaber deemed the income tax to be an excise tax." Again, it appears you're getting hung up on the periphrasis found in the case -- which, admittedly can be massively confusing. (I think I am going to address the problem of understanding circumlocutory expression in the text of the case as I work on the rewrite for the article.)
Regarding your request that, for the term "tax protester," I cite to at least one case by directly quoting a Court decision that referred to a plaintiff as a "tax protester" -- you've got to be kidding! Do you have any idea how easy it was for BD2412 to find those quotes? Are you serious?
Look, I recently found a Wikipedia edit by a tax protester who stated flatly (obviously without having done the slightest bit of homework) that the "Internal Revenue Code" contained no reference to the agency known as the Internal Revenue Service. In short order, I was able to come up with over seventy specific references to "Internal Revenue Service" in the Internal Revenue Code (at last count, I had eventually found over 90 such references, plus numerous references to the agency in other titles of the United States Code).
I'm sorry, but I just can't resist this one. Look if you still want more even after BD2412's reply, I can provide you with a list of cases where the courts have specifically either referred to the taxpayer (whether plaintiff, petitioner, defendant, or whatever), as a "tax protester" or referred to the arguments he/she made as "tax protester" arguments. It's gonna be a pretty long list. It averages 50 to 70 or so Federal cases a year in the last few years. Sorry, but "tax protester" is a very commonly used term in the texts of court decisions -- and it's used in connection with what the courts have ruled are legally frivolous arguments. Let me know if you really want the list!
Regarding the IRS let me know if you really want to see the provision from the 1998 statute that prohibited IRS employees from using the term "tax protester."
I assume from your comments that you really didn't realize that the term "tax protester" was a specific legal term in the United States. Does this mean that you don't have access to the case law, or that you haven't had a chance to read it? Even if you're not a lawyer or CPA, you should at least have access to U.S. Supreme Court decisions. They're available on www.findlaw.com. You can find at least one "tax protester" case there yourself, because the Supreme Court uses the term!
Regarding the case law, I am just curious. I assume you have actually read the entire Brushaber decision, since you do quote from it, and it's available for free on the internet. Why do you think you have not been able to find single a case after 1913 where a court ruled that a Federal income tax was unconstitutional because it wasn't apportioned? Do you think you'll ever find such a case after the Sixteenth Amendment?
Revision of the article is just one of my projects, so it will take awhile. Again, thanks for your input. Yours, Famspear 23:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Hey there, Famspear! Yowza!! Looks like we might be talking past each other, because I certainly ain't selling what you claim not to be buying! :^)
In one case, the confusion is clearly my fault - when I brought up the point about citing cases or the IRS regarding the term "tax protester", I did not mean to challenge its existence, though I can see how it would read that way. My point was that it might be helpful to include those cites in the article. Otherwise the term "tax protester" comes across as a generalization. My apologies for not being clear, there.
On to your other comments. Most of what you say early in your recent comments seems to support the notion that popularity necessitates legality, but then you get to a much clearer point in the PS section. And I think we reach agreement there. But to quickly address this "99.999% endorse it so it is legal/constitutional" argument - what majority of people endorsing that which is factually incorrect is necessary to make a false thing true? Was the world once flat? Does Congress truly have the power to cede its War Declaration powers to the President? The point of these questions is NOT to shed any light on the validity or uselessness of my claims pertaining to the Brushaber case, but rather to suggest that our disagreement might be better served by sticking to what you and I can or cannot demonstrate by appealing to evidence, rather than what might be bogus interpretations of other people, whether they are lawyers, CPAs, or tax protesters.
Anyway, enough of that. :^) Back to OUR discussion. It seems to me that you think I think the Sixteenth Amendment is unconstitutional. I do not think that. Nor do I believe that any federal income tax on wages is unconstitutional. I get the sense that you do think I believe otherwise. If I have misread you, I apologize, but if true, I think this is the danger of throwing around terms like "tax protester" because while I might "protest" the current application of the federal income tax, the term "tax protester" has been applied by the Courts and the IRS largely in a pejorative manner to dismiss all such "protests" as "frivolous".
I have the *same* question you do: why has there not yet been a case brought challenging the uniformity of the federal income tax? Does "uniform" only mean "the same for all states"? Does a uniform lack of uniformity constitute uniformity? :^) That is, if the federal income tax were simplified to be "13% for anyone under 6 feet in height and 42% for anyone over 6 feet in height" and uniformly applied to all states, would that satisfy the uniformity requirement? I am not saying one way or the other. It might. Certainly there would be an Equal Protection problem, but what is truly meant by "Uniformity" in the context of indirect taxes?
In any case, this is all rather tangential to Brushaber. My original problem with the article was what I saw as a clear bias toward the belief that Brushaber establishes that any and all application of the federal income tax is constitutional, without any regard to uniformity, and that anyone who does not interpret Brushaber as you do is a frivolous "tax protester". It seems to me that Wikipedia articles should be bias-free, and your original article does more than just report the facts about Brushaber. I will admit that my reaction to that was not as clear-headed as it should have been, and my edits are also not without bias. Ideally, if you have any interest in doing so, we could collaborate on a re-write that tries to achieve impartiality. Or we can agree to disagree and keep reverting the article every couple of days. :^)
Thanks for your time and contribution. It has made me investigate this issue more thoroughly, and I appreciate that. -- 128.239.105.60 14:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Dear Flytrapper, regarding your coments where you say that early some of my comments, I seem to be supporting "the notion that popularity necessitates legality" - well, no, what I am saying is that the courts have uniformly ruled a certain way. Tax protesters, as a group, contend that the courts are somehow "wrong." Under the U.S. legal system, the law is what the courts say the law is, not what I say the law is, not what the tax protesters say the law is. Tax protesters as a group repeatedly say that 99.99999% of legal experts are wrong. I am reporting that this is a very common tax protester position, so it's not me saying that popularity of a particular view of the law necessitates the legality of that position. Again, the law is what the courts rule that the law is.
Regarding the following commentary:
Actually, there have been some cases where people challenged the Federal income tax, arguing that it is not "uniform." In every case, the courts rejected the arguments. What I am saying is that I know of no case where anyone actually argued that the tax was not imposed with geographical uniformity, which is what the courts have ruled the uniformity clause requires. There might be such a case out there -- I'm saying I haven't researched the details of every case yet. I kinda think very few sane people would try to argue that the Federal income tax isn't at least being imposed everywhere in the fifty states and the District of Columbia, but maybe someone somewhere has tried to make such an argument. I'm saying that regardless of what theory anyone has ever used, to my knowledge no Federal court has ever ruled that any Federal income tax violates the uniformity clause.
Regarding your last question in the quoted material, the courts have (as far as I know) always ruled that "uniformity" means "geographical" uniformity and not "intrinsic" uniformity, to use the courts' terms. The "13% for anyone under 6 feet" etc., hypothetical that you gave might not be a violation of uniformity -- but maybe you might want to study all the leading Federal cases on the uniformity clause for a more definite answer, if there is one.
Yours, Famspear 22:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Footnote: Also, I have added a description of the Court's holding on the the validity of the income tax law under the uniformity clause. The court in Brushaber did not rule that the Sixteenth Amendment is "subject to" the uniformity clause. What the court ruled was that the tax statute in question did not violate the uniformity clause. The Court in Brushaber did not rule that the uniformity clause no longer applies to indirect taxes (excises), and I know of no other case where a court has made any such ruling. Yours, Famspear 22:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Dear fellow editors: I have moved a large chunk of this article to the article on the Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. The bulk of the discussion that I moved really relates to the genesis of the Sixteenth Amendment, and not to the Brushaber case in particular. Yours, Famspear 21:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
people i am not sure who the editor is but would you please email me at wildbill_b@hotmail.com
your statements are patently false and appear to be based on thoughts of others.
brushaber tests the 16th in 3 ways and it fails all 3. this is clear as you can see below.
this is VERBATIM from 240 US 1 the BRUSHABER CASE
If you fail to acknowledge your misunderstanding i can only conclude that truth is not sought after here.
The brushaber case CLEARLY shows that the 16th made NO taxation changes for the average person.
From this in substance it indisputably arises, first, that all the contentions which we have previously noticed concerning the assumed limitations to be implied from the language of the Amendment as to the nature and character of the income taxes which it authorizes find no support in the text and are in irreconcilable conflict with the very purpose which the Amendment was adopted to accomplish ( that is to say making ALL income taxable). Second, that the contention that the Amendment treats a tax on income as a direct tax although it is relieved from apportionment and is necessarily therefore not subject to the rule of uniformity as such rule only applies to taxes which are not direct, thus destroying the two great classifications which have been recognized and enforced from the beginning, is also wholly without foundation since the command of the Amendment that all income taxes shall not be subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the taxed income may be derived
240 US 1
We are of opinion, however, [240 U.S. 1, 11] that the confusion is not inherent, but rather arises from the conclusion that the 16th Amendment provides for a hitherto unknown power of taxation; that is, a power to levy an income tax which, although direct, should not be subject to the regulation of apportionment applicable to all other direct taxes. And the far-reaching effect of this erroneous assumption will be made clear by generalizing the many contentions advanced in argument to support it, as follows:
1.The Amendment authorizes only a particular character of direct tax without apportionment, and therefore if a tax is levied under its assumed authority which does not partake of the characteristics exacted by the Amendment, it is outside of the Amendment, and is void(does not provide for non apportioned direct tax of income) as a direct tax in the general constitutional sense because not apportioned.
2.As the Amendment authorizes a tax only upon incomes 'from whatever source derived,' the exclusion from taxation of some income of designated persons and classes is not authorized, and hence the
'''constitutionality of the law must be tested by the general provisions of the Constitution as to taxation''', and thus again the tax is void for want of apportionment.(does not provide for non apportioned direct tax of income)
3.As the right to tax 'incomes from whatever source derived' for which the Amendment provides must be considered as exacting intrinsic uniformity, therefore no tax comes under the authority of the Amendment not conforming to such standard, and hence all the provisions of the assailed statute must once more be tested solely under the general and pre-existing provisions of the Constitution, causing the statute again to be void in the absence of apportionment. (does not provide for non apportioned direct tax of income)
But it clearly results that the proposition and the contentions [240 U.S. 1, 12] under it, if acceded to, would cause one provision of the Constitution to destroy another; that is, they would result in bringing the provisions of the Amendment exempting a direct tax from apportionment into irreconcilable conflict with the general requirement that all direct taxes be apportioned. Moreover, the tax authorized by the Amendment, being direct, would not come under the rule of uniformity applicable under the Constitution to other than direct taxes, and thus it would come to pass that the result of the Amendment would be to authorize a particular direct tax not subject either to apportionment or to the rule of geographical uniformity, thus giving power to impose a different tax in one state or states than was levied in another state or states. (clearly says that it, by attempting to remove the apportionment requirement, renders itself invalid because it directly conflicts with the constitution in that "no direct tax maybe be unapportioned. you can not presume to tell me that congress has the power to override the constitution?)
So exactly how does anyone claim that this case upholds the 16th's power to lay direct tax on the average income or that it gave any NEW powers of taxation to the government ?
has anyone even read the cited cases?
There are many lawyers who are misquoting this. but if you look at it closely you will find that it Clearly and Plainly says the 16th amendment made no change to congress's ability to tax us.
I am quite open to anything proving otherwise.
69.245.136.69 05:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Dear user: You are simply quoting the same material that tax protestsers quote over and over. With all due respect, have YOU actually read the case, or are you simply copying and pasting material from tax protester web sites? This has already been covered over and over in Wikipedia.
The Court in Brushaber UPHELD the Federal income tax. No lawyers are "misquoting" the case. The tax protesters are taking quotes from the case and arguing that the quotes mean something other than what they say. Mr. Frank Brushaber argued that the Federal income tax was unconstitutional. HE LOST THE CASE. The case did not even involve an income tax on individuals. It involved corporate income tax. Nobody is claiming that the Sixteenth Amendment gave "new" powers" to Congress, etc., etc. Indeed, that's the whole point that the tax protesters miss. As the courts have said over and over, Congress has ALWAYS had the power to tax the incomes of individuals.
Take a deep breath and read the article more slowly. Yours, Famspear 10:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Just so that you know I have read it many times. I have retained multiple lawyers to confirm what i believed to be the fact of the matter. To date NOT ONE lawyer has attempt to tell me what you claim.
They have all concluded that in fact it is erroneous for any court to conclude that the 16th amendment GAVE congress the ability to tax income of the individual who was not taxable BEFORE it.
You are incorrect to claim or assume that i am quoting material from tax protesters sir.
If i had not read the case then how do you suppose i posted verbatim the courts finding ? please do not patronize me. I could truly care less whether wikipedia is givng accurate information or not. I simply chose to point this out so that it could be corrected.
2.As the Amendment authorizes a tax only upon incomes 'from whatever source derived,'
the exclusion from taxation of some income of designated persons and classes is not authorized,
and hence the '''constitutionality of the law must be tested by the general provisions of the Constitution as to taxation''', and thus again the tax is void for want of apportionment.
verbatim from 240 US 1
Notice please in plain simple english that the court clearly says that claiming the 16th gives congress the power to "tax income from whatever source derived" is erroneous.
and the reason given ???? because it does NOT conform to apportionment.
do you presume to have a better understand then the supreme court?
that you can ignore what they tell you it means and use your own interpretation of it ?
your arguments are patently false and grossly incorrect.
it is becoming clear that it is not the desire of wikipedia to show the facts of the case but to simply continue to obfusicate them. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.245.136.69 (
talk •
contribs) on 13 August 2007.
Post-script: At the expense of appearing to beat a dead horse, I want to reprint your quote from above:
The lawyers you spoke to are CORRECT. It IS ERRONEOUS to conclude that the Sixteenth Amendment GAVE Congress the ability to tax income of the individual who was not taxable before the Amendment! Nothing in the Wikipedia article on the Brushaber case says that the Amendment gave Congress a "new" power to tax income of an individual that was not taxable before the Amendment. What the Amendment did was to remove the Pollock apportionment requirement -- and the Pollock apportionment requirement applied only to taxes on income from property (such as interest, dividends and rent), not to income taxes on compensation for personal services, not to taxes on income from "employments" (in other words, not to wages, not to salaries).
Again, what tax protesters do is make the mistake of going a step further and making the FALSE claim that Congress did not have the power to tax the income of individuals BEFORE the amendment. Congress has ALWAYS had the power, and Congress still has that power. Neither the United States Supreme Court nor any other Federal court has ever ruled otherwise. Not even once. Yours, Famspear 21:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Dear Dscotese: First of all, where I (or other people) use bolded font on a talk page, and whether such use is appropriate, is my decision (or other people's decision) to make, not yours.
No, Politz did not "lie" or "err."
Here are some excerpts from the exact wording of the Parker text by the Court:
Nowhere did Politz say (or rule, or "determine") that the Brushaber Court had ruled that the income tax IS a "direct" tax. The Brushaber court did not say or rule that the income tax is a "direct" tax, and the Parker court did not say (or rule) that the Brushaber court made such a ruling. The Parker Court (Politz) is saying that the Brushaber Court determined that the Amendment provided the basis for a "direct non-apportioned income tax". It was the Pollock Court that ruled that certain Federal income taxes were to be treated as "direct" taxes.
Whether you leave the word "direct" in the quoted Parker (Politz) material, or you take the word "direct" out, the legal effect is the same. Under the Sixteenth Amendment, with respect to apportionment, it does not matter whether a particular income tax is deemed to be "direct" or not. If that tax is a Federal income tax, then that tax is not required to be apportioned, regardless of whether one court calls it "direct" while some other court calls it "indirect."
Period.
For years, tax protesters huffed and puffed and turned themselves blue arguing about whether "the" federal income tax is a "direct" tax or an "excise" (indirect tax), in a misguided, failed attempt to try to establish that, even after the ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment, some (or all) Federal income taxes were unconstitutional under one or more goofy theories. Such arguments never won.
One of the basic mistakes that some non-lawyers make in trying to understand legal materials is to focus too much on what a court "said" and then trying to argue that what the court "said" was a "mistake", and that therefore somehow the court decision was legally incorrect. Judicial precedent is a function of what a court DECIDES -- not a function of what a court "says" in passing on its way to reaching its decision. A non-lawyer cannot acquire the ability to consistently analyze texts of legal materials correctly -- to figure out what a court decided -- by reading one, or ten, or even a hundred court cases. Famspear ( talk) 16:31, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
The main holding in this case is the ruling that an income tax is an excise tax. Some people are confused by this and deny that income taxes are indirect taxes, so it is necessary to quote the case, rather than merely summarize. Mpublius 20:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
A new user at IP 72.10.14.226 is objecting to the use of the phrase "income tax on wages." The explanation for this objection does not appear valid. Obviously, the U.S. Federal income tax includes (but it not limited to) a tax on "wages". And this is so regardless of whether one refers to "wages" as being "income" or as a "source of income." Any comments? Famspear ( talk) 22:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, the explanatory edit statement by IP72.10.14.226 that "income can be derived from wages" needs more clarification. What does IP72.10.14.226 think the difference would be between saying "income can be derived from wages" and "wages are income"? Famspear ( talk) 22:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I am unclear as to what you don't understand? Are you defending the original text by stating that the Federal Income Tax is a tax on wages? Is not stating that the Federal Income Tax is a tax on income legally correct where the prior isn't? Since this article is "legal" in nature then I would think this "technicality" is of import.
As to whether this change is confusing, etc. that is a question for another person, since I was not the original author. However the original wording could be redone to include the word wages, hence my statement alluding to wages being a source of income but not income itself. But the simple statement of "income tax on wages" is obviously incorrect (from a Federal Income Tax point of view) and is not a distinction without a difference.
If you require a deeper explanation before a change to the wording I can go to the effort of giving it but I think the above logic should be self evident for someone familiar with the legal background of the current Federal Income Tax. I hope this helps...cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.14.226 ( talk) 19:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Are you being serious? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.14.226 ( talk) 21:26, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Dear readers in general: Since the user at IP72.10.14.226 has not stated specifically what he or she is driving at, I will provide some background for why I believe he or she is making this argument about what might seem to be trivial hair-splitting.
For years, various tax protesters have argued in one form or another that for Federal income tax purposes, wages may be a "source" of income but that "wages" are not actually "income." This argument is a preface to a specious "rationale" that goes something like this: "Although I admit that I received 'wages' for personal services I performed for my employer, none of my 'wages' constituted 'income' because (fill in the blank xxxxx") (and in the blank the tax protesters fill in any one or more of various nonsensical theories that I will not go into right now). The tax protester argument then goes on to say something like "therefore, since my wages are not 'income', they cannot be included in 'gross income' under section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code, etc. etc., and therefore none of my wages are taxable." This is one of the basic formulations for these kinds of arguments.
In Federal tax cases, the courts have rejected these arguments in every single case, without a single exception, for what will be obvious reasons when you read the decisions. There are perhaps hundreds of these cases. In a famous tax protester case decided by the United States Supreme Court, Justice Blackmun wrote:
--see Cheek v. United States. In this criminal tax case, the tax protester (John Cheek) ultimately lost his case and went to prison.
I am deliberately not going to go into more details at this time, nor am I going to cite any other court cases yet, since the user at IP72.10.14.226 has not been specific about why he or she is trying to split hairs (about "wages" and "sources") in the first place. Famspear ( talk) 23:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
My question as to whether you were being serious was sincere, since your comments struck me as offensive, but I know at times the written word does not come across the same as the spoken so I did not want to make a rash judgment. But now I see that my initial reaction was the correct one.
At first I did not understand the source of the your vitriolic comments but having read the comments prior to mine and some of the various links to your other comments I think I have an understanding now.
You my friend, lack not only manners, but also to have a trait of what my pappy would call a "dog in the manger"...hunkering over his bones, as it were, and snarling at anyone that comes near....even a friend.
I came to this page in good faith regarding the specifics of a legal case, wanting only to correct a language issue germane to the legal case before us. You, however, have sought to turn this into something it isn't and have accused me of various nefarious and convoluted claims. One person's hairsplitting is another person's science (once the personal agendas are removed of course). The specific wording in question is not only directly from the federal statute (61), the text of the case (which you yourself quote and expound upon extensively from above) but most importantly directly from the Constitution.
I fail to see why you demand of me "specific" reasoning (even after I have repeatedly given it) when it is obviously self evident. All the while implying that somehow I am responsible for the wording as if I was the one that wrote the Constitution or statutes implementing it! If you claim these words have no meaning or significance then why is this peculiar wording given? why did the court specifically address them? and, of course, what gives you the right to ignore them?
But I see now, this is your self-proclaimed manger and additions or subtractions to your bone-pile is strictly prohibited. So, my friend, I bid you adieu.......cheers.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.14.226 ( talk) 23:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
A request for comment has been opened on the general topic of tax protester theories, and whether the articles that address them are NPOV. bd2412 T 18:08, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a reminder that I have proposed to call for a conclusion to this discussion on tax protester rhetoric on February 6. If anyone has anything more to add to the discussion, speak now! bd2412 T 16:56, 3 February 2008 (UTC)