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His criticism of the New Testament was highly destructive.
I'm not sure what this is intended to mean. The New Testament was not destroyed by his criticism, though perhaps some people's belief in it was.
Perhaps what was intended was deconstructive -- ie following a deconstructionist methodology, which may apply here (I'm no expert on Bauer). For the moment, I've changed "destructive" to "deconstructive". Please correct if you know better. - Anthropos 18:45, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
This article is appropriated essentially verbatim from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica. Public domain, but still, isn't there anyone out there who can write a contemporary article? "His criticism of the New Testament was highly destructive" is accurate enough, since he demonstrated rather convincingly that it is not a work of accurate historical content but an invention written a century after the events purported to take place. We look above all to Bruno Bauer to apprise us that the historical Jesus was a total fiction. See Albert Schweitzer, The Quest of the Historical Jesus, 1905. --David Westling, 28 Sept 2005
Is deconstructive here supposed to be a fancy word for analytic? If so, it is a trivial statement. Most critiques are analyses. When does a "deconstructive" criticism become "highly deconstructive" and who judges it to be so? Lestrade ( talk) 00:15, 26 March 2011 (UTC)Lestrade
This quote is famously attributed to Karl Marx in his 1843 'Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right', well it appears Bruno Bauer made the similar quote in 1841 in his "The Christian State & Our Times", two years earlier, and again in "The Good Cause of Freedom & My Own Case" published in 1842, a year earlier. Maybe it is noteworthy enough for the article that, seeing as Karl Marx was under the tutelage of Bruno Bauer, to mention such; that it is highly likely Marx lifted this sentiment from Bauer. Nagelfar ( talk) 09:25, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Hegel died the year that Strauss entered Berlin University, so Strauss got his ideas from other sources. Not familiar with the subject, but there are two points I would make. 1) The second clause does not necessarily follow from the first, as Strauss could have been exposed to Hegel's ideas from another source, a book for example. 2) This discussion of Bauer and Strauss almost certainly does not fit under the subject heading "Personality," and may require its own section. Cesarpermanente ( talk) 16:25, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Where did Bauer earn his degree in history? Or is he considered one because he wrote books on the topic of history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.143.152 ( talk) 07:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
Ok folks, I have tried to clean up at least the first part of the article. It could still need some rewrite, e.g. at the moment, the article does not follow completly the chronology , what may confuse people. Also, the complete article read as if significant parts of it were written by Paul Trejo, who is a big fan of Bruno Bauer, but whose interpretation of Bauer is not shared by anyone else, who is openly opposed to the academic consensus about Bruno Bauer, and who does know little about the historical background of Bauer's time and country. He also knows only those few of Bauer's works that have been translated into english. He may still be right, but for a NPOV encyclopedia one needs to take into acount that his position is isolated. I have tried to convert the first part of the article into one more in line with the academic mainstream of Bauer research (also turning its style from journalistic into npov/encyclopedic), but the rest of the article is still partly exhibiting the minor position of PT. Also, that later part of the article seems chaotic in parts and also partly not encyclopedic in its style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.181.33.64 ( talk) 21:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
The section on the Marx's criticisms of Bauer misses that the German Ideology was never published in Bauer's lifetime. I'd also suggest the section on Der Judenfrage is perhaps being generous and equivocal about Bauer's antisemitism, and misses that Marx's text was an ironical and hostile response. It seems strange (and a suspicious kind of revisionism) to suggest Marx was more antisemitic than Bauer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.247.96 ( talk) 20:13, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 14:54, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I have concerns about both the veracity and neutrality of the “anti-Semitism” section, specifically regarding two paragraphs:
In 1843, Bauer wrote The Jewish Question, which was responded to in a pamphlet written by Karl Marx, entitled, On the Jewish Question. This has been traditionally attributed to Bruno Bauer's influence, despite the fact that Bauer and Marx had sharply broken paths. Bauer allegedly argued that the Jews were responsible for their own misfortunes in European society since they had "made their nest in the pores and interstices of bourgeois society".[8] However, this allegation may simply be one of the common attributions from Karl Marx's pen onto Bruno Bauer.
Actually, Bauer's actual words were, 'Jewish citizens should not expect to be free in Germany as long as German citizens were themselves unfree.' It is not as easy to charge this statement with antisemitism, compared with the economic statements about Jewry by Karl Marx himself.
About the first paragraph:
A) Bauer, not Marx, did indeed write the quoted "their nests in pores...." line, a fact easily verifiable. Bauer's The Jewish Question was translated into English in 1958 by Helen Lederer (Hebrew Union-Jewish Institute of Religion, Cincinnati, Ohio), and copies are attainable -- for me, at my local library. Moreover, the introduction & conclusion to Bauer’s The Jewish Question (Lederer’s translation) were included in the more recent The Young Hegelians, an Anthology edited by Lawrence S. Stepelevich & easily attainable. The quoted “made their nests” line was translated by Miriam Kochan; Lederer’s translation is slightly different (“have struck roots” instead of “nests,” ”gaps and crevices,” instead of “pores and interstices”[1]) though the point remains the same.
B) To state that Bauer “allegedly” argued that the Jews were responsible for their own misfortunes is patently untrue. He didn’t “allegedly” argue this--he without question argued this, and was quite clear about it. To wit:
“Of the Jews it will at least be admitted that they suffered for their Law, for their way of life and their nationality, that they were martyrs. They were this themselves to blame for the oppression they have suffered, because they have provoked it by their adherence to their law, their language, to their way of life. A nothing cannot be oppressed. Wherever there is pressure something must have caused it by its existence, its nature.” [2]
“...give the Jews the honor that they were to blame for their oppression which they suffered, that the hardening of their character caused by their oppression was their own fault. Then you admit them to a place in a two-thousand-year-old history, although a subordinate one...” [3]
C) The writer of this section quotes Bauer, offers a source for the quote--then suggests the source was probably mistaken, that likely the quote is something Marx wrote. That this kind of mistaking Marx for Bauer is “common,” as this writer suggests, is unsubstantiated. And the fact the writer here so casually dismisses this *particular* source strikes me as odd--since the source is Leon Poliakov (translator Miriam Kochan), an internationally regarded historian known for his five-volume, meticulously researched series on the history of anti-Semitism. Poliakov cites the original German version of Bauer’s The Jewish Question in his sources. He quotes from it numerous times; he also includes a detailed discussion of Marx’s Die Judenfrage in this same book--Poliakov was well acquainted with work of both.
About the second paragraph:
A) No source is offered for Bauer’s allegedly “actual words." What the writer presents here as a direct quote sounds more like a paraphrase of one of Bauer's points. (A point Bauer made this point in addition to--not instead of--his point about Jews being responsible for their own misfortunes.)
B) The line “Actually, Bauer’s actual words were...” is problematic for a number of reasons. As mentioned, Bauer did indeed write what this wiki-writer seems intent on convincing the reader of otherwise. The writer seems deliberately obfuscating, suggesting again that Bauer did not write something he indeed did, falsely posing as someone with insider knowledge of Bauer's "actual" words.
C) This line -- It is not as easy to charge this statement with antisemitism, compared with the economic statements about Jewry by Karl Marx himself -- is problematic in that it is an opinion presented as fact, makes broad claims about Marx’s “statements” without offering proof/actual quotes, and is, to begin with, prefaced on falsehoods as to what Bauer has and has not written.
RynnJacobs ( talk) 08:01, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
[1] Bauer, Bruno. (1843). "The Jewish Question," excerpts. In Stepelevich, L. S. (Ed.), The Young Hegelians, an Anthology. Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey: Humanities Press International. (p. 193)
[2] Ibid (p. 189)
[3] Ibid (p. 190)
The article reads "For example, when Bauer was middle-aged, a youthful Friedrich Nietzsche came to visit him, seeking advice from a well-known author (because Bruno Bauer did remain well known during his lifetime). Bauer encouraged Nietzsche to criticize David Strauss[...]." I am a PhD student writing my dissertation on Friedrich Nietzsche. My area of general philosophic interest is in 19th century philosophy from Kant to Nietzsche. I have found no evidence to support the claim that the young Nietzsche ever visited Bruno Bauer (also, when? where?). Secondly, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it was Bauer that encouraged Nietzsche to write on David Strauss for his first "Untimely Meditation," but rather it was Richard Wagner, with whom Nietzsche had a personal relationship, as is well known, that encouraged Nietzsche to write on Strauss, as Wagner disliked Strauss and had several public disputes with him. [1] If there is a source that claims Bauer and Nietzsche had met, and/or that he may have encouraged to write on Strauss, then please cite the passage, as I as well as others would certainly like to see the evidence. If no source is available to confirm this claim, then this section in the article should be removed. Nietzsche does mention in Ecce Homo, though, in the section "Why I Write Such Good Books" under the "Untimely Ones," that Bauer was his "only reading public," or something to that effect. However, this alone does not confirm any personal relationship, and probably more so signifies his awareness that Bauer was a sharp critic of Strauss, but nothing besides. Thank you. Spinks03 ( talk) 18:50, 9 July 2014 (UTC) Justin Spinks, University of Kentucky, Department of Philosophy
References
A lot of this reads more like, say, an appreciative introduction to an edited volume of Bauer's work than an encyclopedia article. The closing line beginning "[s]uppressed and condemned by both the right-wing and the left-wing" is not up to snuff -- especially since the "left-wing criticism" here discussed is just a book Marx wrote disagreeing with him--"suppression" is way too over the top.
Requesting heavy editing of this section because everything in the section is completely uncited and the section itself says nothing about his actual political ideology so it should not be named such. If the section is kept without a rewrite, it should be trimmed heavily of information previously repeated at other points in the article, and renamed something closer to it's contents such as: "Association with other Hegelians," or more vaguely "Impact on contemporaries."
It is filled with conjecture and unfalsifiable claims such as: "Perhaps this affected Bauer's personality; he may have seen himself as sitting quite close to the highest academic post in Prussia, and that might have gone to his head." The last sentence is unnecessary, colloquially styled and trivial to include.
It has very awkward wording in some sentences such as: "Condemned by both the right-wing and the left-wing, Bauer settled into his family's tobacco shop to earn his living, though he continued to write. He never married, but he wrote many books, all the way to 1879. He died in 1883." Also, the last sentence of this being either unnecessarily repetitious considering his death was named in greater detail in the Biography section of the article. "He wrote many books, all the way to 1879" does not belong in this section of the article and should be rephrased if included to be more informative.
Furthermore the writing style and outline of this section makes it difficult to read because of continuous comments like those above that sideline the main content of the section and disrupt the straight facts.
I don't have the expertise on Bauer to change this myself, and it would be naïve of me to do so. I am just opening these issues. 2600:8807:901:9600:4971:CCA5:3DD8:4E9C ( talk) 19:47, 11 April 2024 (UTC)