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I have gone through and restructured the article to make it a bit more readable. Comments? -- Cornflake pirate 04:23, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Some of the bosses listed as "famous" don't seem to be that well known. These are The Crystal Whale (The New Zealand Story), Doppelganger (R-Type), LeChuck (The Secret of Monkey Island), The 'Mothership' (Gradius), and The Swordmaster (The Secret of Monkey Island). I could be wrong, but their validity should be checked. -- LGagnon
Hmm... isn't the name of that boss "Dobkeratops", though? - Fredrik (talk) 23:54, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
What does the "versus" in this line mean?
Also, this image caption says "flashing in red" but I don't see any red in the picture. Should this be "magenta"?
Well, thing is, I don't want to add certain bosses without input from the editors of this page (although, I took the liberty of adding King Dedede and others). So, here's some bosses, and you guys tell me if you think they're applicable:
Comments? -- A Link to the Past 14:12, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
The following bosses added by that Anon are foolish:
There you go. -- A Link to the Past 00:33, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
Someone put a history section in the article stating that some Americans invented bosses in the 70s. I corrected it to identify that boss has Japanese roots, not American. But the bit I wrote needs editing. 57.66.10.36 18:20, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Dnd was written in 1975. It had a boss. Nintendo's first video game was not released until 1977. The Atari 2600 was not released until 1977. Thus, dnd predates Nintendo and Atari by two years. Neither had 'bosses' even in 1977. Space invaders was released in 1978, and it did not have a boss. Ratwod
I think we should take the lists of "noteworthy" bosses and superbosses and put them in a seperate article, then have no more than 5 examples of each in this article. And the bosses that get listed should be varied; like no filling it up with classic Nintendo bosses (Bowser OR Ganon NOT Both), or Final Fantasy bosses (Kefka OR Sephiroth NOT Both). -- VederJuda 15:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the list of bosses is too long. How about a separate article which is a list of bosses? -- Ratwod
Could someone please clarify the source of the phrase 'Random Boss Syndrome'? I've never even heard of that term outside this wikipedia article and googling it merely brings up mirrored articles, and so I wondered if it was a case of the author of the article making up the term.
I created a page entitled List of video game bosses. I moved the section on bosses and superbosses to that page. -- Ratwod
The lists of Trick and Unbeatable bosses are starting to get awfully long again...Time to give them their own articles with just a few listed here, perhaps? Hrimfaxi 10:01, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
I mean, there are quite a few spoilers on this page, a spoiler warning would be perfectly logical. -- 68.79.114.187 23:10, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Should the article make mention of bosses in certain video games where you CANNOT be killed, like the Golem Boss in Chrono Trigger, or Shenzi, Banzai, and Ed in Kingdom Hearts II? In both cases, they aren't capable of attacking you, but they do psyche you out.
If Eggman's image has to be included in this article then somebody change it to an image of him from a GAME (preferably the original Sonic) you can't use a still cell from an animation in a section detailing what a videogame boss is.
I've just gone and been bold-as-brass and made a massive copy-edit of this article. As it stood before, reading it was utterly headache-inducing with paragraph-long sentences and examples packed ad-nauseum into said paragraphs. I've cleaned up the entire section " Types of Bosses", giving it clearer sentence structure and organising examples into bullet lists or separate paragraphs. Content should have remained the same (if you feel that I compromised it in any way, that wasn't my intention).
There's still one thing that bugs me with this article:
Given the nature of this article, having 2000 examples to illustrate each point is just nuts. I believe we need to discuss paring back the number of examples to an exemplary few for each Boss type. — Metamorf 14:02, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I also agree; the article could be much shorter. I know people are huge fans of bosses from their favorite video games, but it's stupid to try to please everyone. Also, what's up with the 50 references to "Paper Mario"? WTF was that game? Secretagentwang 18:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
This article is exceedingly long and several redundant examples seem to be added as mere fancruft. We should get this thing severely cleaned up. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇ ↯ 02:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I've cut back the vast tracts of 'hidden boss' examples. They added nothing to the article, contained game guide info and were excessively spoilerific.-- Nydas 16:18, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I also suggest deleting the 'strong' and 'stylish' boss types.-- Nydas 16:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I have had it with these motherfarking bosses in this motherfarking article! I'm calling for a rewrite. Here are my thoughts.
Examples for each section should be kept to 3 at best, up to 5 if absolutely necessary. Each example should also state (briefly!) WHY that particular boss is an exemplary specimen of that particular boss type. (Bowser, for example, is one of, if not THE most famous final boss in the video game world. The necessity of including Bowser is obvious. On the other hand, can your average gamer tell you who Sardius, of Super Ghosts n' Ghouls is? No. His inclusion is pointless.) Anything (be it the boss or worse, the game iself) with a redlink should be removed without mercy. Concerning the many supposed boss types: we need to trim those down, badly. SEVENTEEN boss types is a little excessive. Let's aim for fifteen. Even ten.
My suggestions for trimming the categories are as follows:
I'm going to try to work up a presentable draft, sometime within the next few days. Until then, leave feedback, please! ♠ P M C♠ 08:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, Strong Boss ought to go, as bosses that are not "strong" that way are an anomaly, not the other way around. Another thought - what do you think of using GameFaqs' yearly Chracter Battles to determine notability of boss characters? Since the contests are pretty much based on popularity, non-notable bosses end up at the bottom, while notable ones end up on top. Could we possibly make appearance on that list a criteria for inclusion as an example boss? (And if not, we should try to draw from those bosses who appear in the Battles where we can.) After all, the community determines notability, and GameFaqs represents a huge subset of the gamer population. (By the by, the contest archives live here: Gamefaqs) ♠ P M C♠ 23:11, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
True. Still, I think it could be a reasonable starting place, as long as we don't draw every example from it. Also, apparently in 2005, EGM did a "Top 10 Video Game Bosses" list. If we could find it, we could use that for some ideas. ♠ P M C♠ 23:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I know, that's the problem with categories. There's always the potential to get more detailed, and then they start getting stupidly specific and terribly overlapping. We should determine a certain number of broad categories, and stick with them. "Minor categories" (like "Odd Couple Boss") should be reduced to a sentence-long mention in their parent category. (For example, "Certain team bosses are composed of two dissimilar characters, often complementing one another's weaknesses, instead of the standard identical team.") I also agree with BaronGrackle that we should separate the categories into "significance or characterization" of boss, versus "actual boss battle." ♠ P M C♠ 22:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
You guys had let someone write in this article that American Dungeons and Dragons game designers had invented bosses. I read all this article and you know a lot about bosses. Why would you let such BS be in your article? They look like they go all over wikipedia saying they invented bosses and if someone says it's not true they just erase it again. Maybe someone here knows enough to write how that's not true.
I'm going to remove some of the worst orginal research and neologisms that have appeared recently. But this article remains awful. As I've said before, the entire structure is questionable, consisting of listy 'types' and 'examples'. It's barely encyclopedic, and completely impenetrable to non-gamers.-- Nydas 23:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be at least a small section regarding that?-- Marhawkman 11:24, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I've culled these two boss types from the article. The terms 'strong boss' and 'stylish boss' are not commonly used gaming terms, with these specific meanings. "This boss is difficult to defeat because it has a lot of energy and/or deals a large amount of damage" simply applies to almost any sort of boss. It's not remotely informative and it's basically original research as well. It's not Wikipedia's job to invent new words for things. The examples given are very weak as well.-- Nydas (Talk) 18:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
That section is in severe need of sources. Personally, I have a hard time believing that many gamers have grown tired of the concept of bosses as a whole. 199.126.137.209 01:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
while I know my opinion is worth little here (I am not even speaking as an active member ATM) I would like someone to nominate this article for removal. It is taking space and confusing readers that are looking for "real" information regarding bosses in video games
None of the reviews cited in Metacritic regarding Red Faction II say anything about the boss battles. Which source had a review where the game's boss fights were criticised? -- Warp L. Obscura 11:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
(UTC)
Boss battles do not minimize the game realism, they have also changed from (e.g major weakness ect) to being hard simply by using great AI or simply by being superior in terms of weapons or a superior being. (e.g a guy with a gun vs a tank ect) Not all bosses Have great weaknesses that have to be exploited. The game shadow of the colossus consists of bosses only(and is considered a good game by standard opinions) ,is proof that bosses are still used, if not more than before. (in my opinion this article is ridiculing Wikipedia`s standards) someone should remove that clearly anti-boss segment.
it might be harsh but a lot of this article consists of original research and again I hope someone care to remove the obviously personal segment stating that bosses are not used/needed any more in video games.
I've just deleted huge tracts of what are obviously neologisms and original research. Harsh, I know, but I don't think we were ever going to find references for this terminology. I believe the way forward is for us to reference-up the history and common critical responses (positive and negative) to the presence of bosses in games, and then ensure anything else added is referenced and absolutely not original research. The article currently has multiple spoilers for multiple different games. I'd like to find an alternative to that if possible. Sockatume 18:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Hmph... go ahead, destroy my favorite article on wikipedia, you changed a page I loved into a page I hate. BassxForte 02:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Would someone like to incorporate non-fighting bosses, such as the mysterious character in Half-Life, into the article? I don't play video games of this sort enough to do so, but it seems this belongs here, too. ProhibitOnions (T) 14:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
There's this little article, load bearing boss. I saw it when a friend posted it and said "look what I made!" It was uncited, completely orphaned, and had out of context links, but I fixed that. I kinda expected it to grow, but apparently he's lost interest. It could probably be made into a paragraph in 'types of bosses,' ya know? Spriteless 14:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
A load-bearing boss is a specific type of plot device which is linked from the page listing plot devices. I think that makes it worthy of it's own article. 66.167.88.152 20:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Right now Load bearing boss redirects to here, but the term doesn't appear anywhere in the article. I'm going to recreate the other article, and if anyone wants to merge them again, make sure that the info from the other article makes it to this one, preferably in a way that doesn't mess up the flow of the page. -- Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 01:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
The phrase about it should definitely be deleted from this article. There is no source using the term "load bearing boss." It looks to be a joke someone made up, and is not recognized by anyone I've ever asked about gaming. Happinessiseasy 17:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
An IP reinstated the vast listy blob of 'bosses by type'; I've removed it. It was almost pure original research without any references or even the possibility of them. Most of the terms were neologisms without any hint of widespread use. Who has said that "Ugh-Zan III from Serious Sam is classified as a puzzle, giant, strong, final and unbeatable boss"? Nobody. If I were to come along and say that he's actually classified as a ultra, final, intermittently-vulnerable, projectile-using, ground-shaking boss, how could we ever decide who was right?-- Nydas (Talk) 13:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
"Most games with bosses often have one as the last obstacle in the way of victory. This "final" or "last" boss is often the most difficult enemy in the game. A notable exception is the Gradius and Grandia series, where the last bosses don't defend themselves and are defeated quite effortlessly."
Haven't played those games. Is this true, or just someone complaining about how easy certain bosses are? I mean, Final Fantasy X-2's last boss was a joke, but I don't think they made him weak on purpose. Master Deusoma 00:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
bosses are often made weak on purpose like the giant brain from the gradius games not attacking at all and dieing even if not being attacked by the antagonist. OH and not least the leader from the hulk Snes game. As he simply stands laughing away until defeated with an uppercut. There are bound to be far more bosses of this kind. (just stating examples)
In FF7 the very last bout w/ sephiroth is more of a storyline fight. The final form of Zophar from lunar 2 is much the same "whoo the main hero and the main girl are fighting together again." FFX's final boss is also impossible to lose against - all characteres have auto life on them.--
Mr Bucket
21:21, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Should mention the concept in RPGs of The Foozle, which is usually used in a derogatory way. JAF1970 19:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)