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"....as the entire region- Assam, Bengal and parts of Bihar and Orissa..." Ancient Kalinga, Utkal or Kosal or modern Odisha was never be the Part of Kamarupa. its a wrong information and corrupting the history.
Old Benagali is referred to Charya Padi. The manuscript of Charya Padi was on the palm leaf manuscript. And bengali don’t had any palm leaf writing culture. But Odia do have form 1000s of years. Charya Giti are Odia the words are no difference between Old Odia words. There is no reationship between Bengali language. Its not correct.
http://orissamatters.com/tag/history-of-bengali-language/
again in Old Bengali section it is writtern ad "verb inflections -ইলা -ila, -ইবা -iba, etc"
ইলা -ila :
Odia: Karila, Khaila, Dekhila, Nachila etc Bengali: Korlo, Bollo, dekhlo, nachlo etc
-ইবা -iba :
Odia: Jiba, Khaiba, Dekhiba, Nachiba etc Bengala : Jabo, Bolbo, Dekhbo, Nachbo etc
Is it not clear that Chariya GIti is in Odia but not Bengala ?
Other parts of India are distinguished in the language map which confuses me what that part has to do to be distinguished? Administrator please re-draws the map with only the part where Bengali is used in South Asia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.175.160.131 ( talk) 17:28, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Along with Assamese, it is geographically the most eastern of the Indo-European languages. Wouldn't Assamese and Bishnupriya Manipuri be the most Eastern? Even If BPM is not actually a language at least the whole thing should be mentioned? Maquahuitl
Comparing the stated ranking of Bengali here and that on the page List of languages by number of native speakers I found a discrepancy. What is the truth? Would someone correct the discrepancy please? -- JorisvS 21:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure the Ethnologue source is reliable, since for example it gives the number of Portuguese speakers as 170M, which is less than the population of Brazil, an entirely Portuguese-speaking country. In any case it's undesirable to have Wikipedia articles completely disagreeing with each other, so I'm changing the ranking to "between 4 and 7" until this can be resolved, ideally at Talk:List of languages by number of native speakers. Lfh 20:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
From IQBAL50000: Hello Friends, I just want to say something: As far as I'm aware the second most widely spoken language of India is Bengali, after Hindi. I am 99% sure it's not Telegu. Telegu is the third most widely spoken language of India, after Hindi and Bengali. I can provide you with ample amount of explicitly clear confirmations of the accuracy of what I stated here -i.e. Please read the following web links:-
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/India.pdf -(please read whole of final paragraph of page 7)
http://www.w3cindia.in/2006/08/Talks/e-GOV-Sts-LLT.ppt -(please see table on page 5)
http://lands.let.kun.nl/literature/heuvel.2004.2.pdf -(please read the third paragraph of section 3.2, which is on page 3)
'India: ECONOMY' http://www.mongabay.com/reference/new_profiles/250in.html -(please read second paragraph of the 'Languages' section of this article)
Also, Bengali is ranked as the 6th most widely spoken language in the world (in terms of mother tongue), - Please see the following link of a very reliable and up to date website:
'CIA - The World Factbook -- World '
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html
-(please scroll down and read the "Languages" section under the 'People' heading).
From Iqbal50000: MY DEAR FRIENDS, I THINK THE EVIDENCES I HAVE STATED ABOVE ABSOLUTELY AND MOST CONCLUSIVELY PROVES THAT BENGALI IS THE 2ND MOST WIDELY SPOKEN LANGUAGE OF INDIA, AFTER HINDI. THE SOURCES I QUOTED ABOVE ARE NEUTRAL SOURCES (I.E FROM INDIAN GOVT SOURCES AND OTHER SOURCES), ALL OF WHICH STATE EXPLICITLY THAT BENGALI IS THE 2ND MOST WIDELY SPOKEN LANGUAGE IN INDIA AFTER HINDI! IN ALL OF THESE VERY SAME NEUTRAL SOURCES OF MINE, TELUGU IS STATED AS THE THIRD MOST WIDELY SPOKEN LANGUAGE OF INDIA AFTER HINDI AND BENGALI. THESE SOURCES ALSO GIVE PERCENTAGES FOR EACH OF THE LANGUAGES OF INDIA! AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THESE DATA/INFORMATION ARE NOT FROM WEST BENGAL OR FROM ANY OTHER STATE AUTHORITIES! THEY ARE FROM THE GOVT OF THE REPUBLIC OF INDIA AND OTHER SOURCES WHICH ARE NATIONAL/FEDERAL SOURCES-I.E. ACCEPTED SOURCES FOR THE COUNTRY OF INDIA AS A WHOLE!! MY FRIENDS WHO HAVE QUOTED SOURCES STATING TELUGU AS THE SECOND MOST WIDELY SPOKEN, ARE NOT NEUTRAL SOURCES. THEIR SOURCES ARE DATA/INFORMATION WHICH ARE EITHER FROM LOCAL/STATE SOURCES EG ANDHRA PRADESH STATE SOURCES, OR FROM SOURCES ABOUT/CONCENTRATING ON A STATE/LOCALITY (I.E. ANDHRA PRADESH). WE ALL KNOW THE OFFICIAL STATE LANGUAGE OF ANDHRA PRADESH IS TELEGU. I THINK WHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING NATIONAL/COUNTRYWIDE ATTRIBUTES OF ANY COUNTRY, NATIONAL/FEDERAL SOURCES SHOULD BE QUOTED, AND SHOULD BE REGARDED AS MORE RELIABLE THAN SOURCES FROM, (OR CASE STUDIES ON) A PARTICULAR STATE/LOCALITY OF THE COUNTRY! THEREFORE I WOULD KINDLY REQUEST THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE TO AMEND THE ARTICLE WHITH REGARDS TO THE RANK OF BENGALI IN INDIA, BEARING IN MIND ALL THE GOVT AND OTHER NEUTRAL 'OVERALL' COUNTRYWIDE SOURCES.!-REGARDS+BEST WISHES TO YOU ALL.
Bengali ranks as 7th in Native speakers - refer to Wikipedia's List of languages by number of native speakers. The current citation next to the ranking (i.e. [1] is out of date. Can we please update the information already? Jerse 06:00, 14 February 2007 (UITC)
From IQBAL50000: WIKIPEDIA IS A GREAT SOURCE OF INFORMATION ON A WIDE VARIETY OF SUBJECTS/TOPICS. HOWEVER, AT BEST IT IS A SECONDARY SOURCE OF INFORMATION, AND AS WIKIPEDIA ITSELF CLEARLY INDICATES, IT RELYS ON CITATIONS FROM OTHER SOURCES. SO THEREFORE, WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES ARE BASED ON OTHER PUBLISHED/SCRUTINISED SOURCES. SO, IN MY HUMBLE VIEW, ONE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE CANNOT BE USED TO VERIFY INFORMATION IN ANOTHER WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE. ALL WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES ARE BASED ON OTHER SOURCES, AND THE FIGURES I QUOTED ARE FROM CIA-THE WORLD-FACTBOOK, WHICH IS UPDATED REGULARLY. BEST REGARDS TO ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS OF WIKIPEDIA.
I am pretty sure Bangla is spoken by at least 10,000 people in some Middle Eastern countries, by large number of Bangladeshi, Indian workers. Could someone refine the Map.
Don't see it anywhere on the nomination page. Does that mean it failed? Should I remove the tag at the top of the page? -- Ttownfeen 16:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
There's some duplication between this article and the Bengali Grammar (BG) article. In general that's probably not a problem, but the BG article doesn't mention word order (apart from postpositions), while this one does. Seems like that ought to get at least as much coverage in the BG article. Likewise the (zero) copula. Mcswell 15:10, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
In the discussion on the Bengali Grammar, the writer gives examples such as "noeTa goru", "koeTa lok", "jutA" etc. Would this be Standard Colloquial Bengali. I believe the SCB forms should "no'Ta", "ko'Ta" and "juto" etc. Thanks,
Aniruddha Einrud ( talk) 20:26, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
I think its time for a FA drive. Thoughts?-- ppm 20:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Isupport the nom. Its time to have a FA drive. Amartyabag 06:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Whoever is changing the language rank, pls discuss it here. Your own ethnologue citation contradicts your assertion, look at the numbers pls-- ppm 09:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok. Library of Congress country profile gives Bengali as the second most spoken language in India. It gives percentage also. Pleasee see page 7 of Country profile: India (December 2004). I think this source is more dependable than either of the two references used now. Please comment.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 07:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
This section should probably be merged with dialect, as per FAC comments. I am holding back myself due to my, well, ignorance; but i'll give it a try unless someone else does it.-- ppm 07:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Please be sure to use edit summaries. -- Ideogram 03:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the worldwide distribution map right now, I think the baby blue dots need to be changed to some other color. The dots on Rome and Athens(?) are barely noticable. Also, I believe dots should be added to Atlanta, Ga., USA and Dubai, UAE.
The sound sample that Peter Isotalo asked about in the FA nom page can be found here File:02 abani bari2.ogg. Would someone mind finding a place to put it in the article?
-- Ttownfeen 04:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Isn't Bengal NOT the principal language of these areas? Shouldn't it be light green perhaps? Maquahuitl 16:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
FROM IQBAL50000: WELL, CHITTAGONG HILL TRACTS ARE INSIDE BANGLADESH, AND NORTHERN WEST BENGAL IS IN WEST BENGAL STATE OF INDIA-WHICH IS OBVIOUS!, SO BOTH OF THE AREAS YOU MENTIONED ARE ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED-NEEDLESS TO SAY!
I wonder how justifiable the east/west dichotomy is. There are similar difference north and south. Just emphasizing differences across political boundaries seems incomplete-- ppm 07:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
some sources say it's second, others point it's Telugu that's second. one of the sources given quotes only a 1991 census. the other is from Library of Congress. Language Engineering Research Centre at University of Hyderabad states it's Telugu that's in second. This one from a Chennai and this from Hyderabad institutes' papers says telugu is second. The official government website (ending with "nic.in") says In terms of population, Telugu ranks second to Hindi among the Indian languages. Shouldn't that be reflected accordingly in the article. Idleguy 08:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
You guys are forgetting that Bengali is very very widely spoken around India like in Orissa, Assam, Jharkhand, and all the seven states in the north-east of India apart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.98.112.251 ( talk) 14:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
FROM IQBAL50000: REST ASSURED, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO CONFUSION HERE! INDIAN GOVERNMENT SOURCES QUOTE BENGALI AS THE SECOND MOST WIDELY SPOKEN LANGUAGE IN INDIA, AFTER HINDI(AND THIS IS, NEEDLESS TO SAY, IN TERMS OF POPULATION SIZE-NOT LAND SIZE!). THESE SOURCES MOST OBVIOUSLY DO NOT INCLUDE BANGLADESH!!! IT IS A SEPARATE COUNTRY! I THINK THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT IS WELL AWARE OF THIS FACT! DON'T YOU THINK SO? PLEASE READ AND FOLLOW THE WHOLE DISCUSSION, ALONG WITH THE EVIDENCES/THE REFERENCES, THIS ARTICLE USED/CITED-BEFORE SAYING ANYTHING. IF YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCES TO BACK UP YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT THE POSSIBLE "CONFUSION" YOUR ARE REFERING TO, PLEASE PRESENT IT. UNTIL THEN PLEASE REFRAIN FROM MAKING ANY SUCH BASELESS STATEMENTS. ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS DISCUSSION CANNOT ALL BE 'CONFUSED'-ONE OR TWO (ALONG WITH ME!) MAY BE, BUT ALL OF US CAN'T BE!BEST REGARDS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.81.167 ( talk) 19:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Isn't চলিতভাষা pronounced as "cholit-bhasha" rather than "cholito-bhasha"? — Ambuj Saxena ( talk) 16:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
No, Standard Colloquial Bengali (Cholti Bangla) is not entirely based on the Kolkata dialect, although the two are relatively close (especially when compared to Bangladeshi dialects). It is based on the dialect of Nadia, which is not far from Kolkata. There is definitely a distinctive Kolkata dialect that can be heard in many movies and shows, and sometimes it's hard for people from Bangladesh to distinguish this from Cholti Bangla, but I presume people from West Bengali are more aware of the difference. Also, regarding your parents speaking Cholti Bangla in Bangladesh... I believe this is very common, especially among middle and upper class families in the cities. From my contacts and travels in Bangladesh, I've noticed this is growing more common with every generation in fact. Strange but interesting! -- SameerKhan 08:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Please don't include Bangladesh for declaring Bengali as the second most spoken language 'in India'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.51.67.170 ( talk) 23:44, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Congrats everyone. The article is now featured ! Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 16:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Some argue for much earlier points of divergence — going back to even 500 CE[6] but the language was not static; different varieties coexisted and authors often wrote in multiple dialects. For example, Magadhi Apabhramsha is believed to have evolved into Magadhi Abahatta around the 6th century; Abahatta competed with Bengali for a period of time.
The first sentence is fine on its own. The second sentence, however, is awkward. Why was Magadhi Apabhramsa brought up? Which Abahatta "competed" with Bangla? When? What was the "competition" about? How does all this relate to the statements made in the first sentence? No brilliant prose here. -- Zaheen 12:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
The following does not sound right:
Like most other modern Indic languages, Bengali arose from the Magadhi Apabhramsha melting pot of Middle Indic languages, around the turn of the first millennium CE.
Chatterji's ODBL (1926) says on p. 91:
“ | The modern represantatives of Magadhi Apabhramsa are Bengali, Assamese, Oriya, Magahi, Maithili and Bhojpuriya | ” |
These do not constitute "most other modern Indic languages", as the sentence under consideration suggests. Magadhi Apabrhamsa was spoken/used on the eastern parts of the subcontinent, possibly in Bihar-Bengal-Orissa region. -- Zaheen 13:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
320 million native speakers of Bengali? Where is this number coming from? Its unbelievably high-- ppm 17:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Its not about the motivation. Its about being correct or wrong. Bengali today has around 181000000+ (which is all set to increase after population census of India in 2011). Infact its not even a matter of a lot of pride but being factually correct is very important. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
203.98.104.139 (
talk)
22:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Where did this 300 million estimate come from? Maybe in another 50 years, but not yet. Besides, the source the number cites itself only claims 230 million. Judging by the estimates of Bangladesh, WB, Tripura populations and estimates of expats, there can't be too much more than 255 mil native speakers. Nevertheless, we gotta stick to the citations, so I'm changing it to 230 million. Taajikhan ( talk) 22:29, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
The pie chart shows todbhov words as being the largest component of Bangla vocabulary while the accompanying text has totshom words as the largest. Which is right? PEHook 01:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I notice that Jerse ( talk · contribs) has been removing the ranking citation repeatedly from the article. I request the user to discuss this here in the talk page before repeating the same thing. The citation clearly backs the information given in the page. This is a featured article, and undiscussed edits like this are unfortunate. Thank you. -- Ragib 05:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Should we redirect the Writing System to Eastern Nagari script? After that, may be, we can merge Bengali script and Assamese script as these two articles essentially deal with the same set of scripts. - Bikram98 06:46, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the following sentence:
“ | The Bengali writing system is not alphabetical such as the Roman script. | ” |
What does it mean to be "alphabetical"? → AA ( talk • contribs) — 16:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
"(67%) are considered tôtshôm (direct reborrowings from Sanskrit), 21,100 (28%) are tôdbhôb (native Bengali vocabulary), "
In all the languages I know (For eg Kannada and Marathi) Tatsama and Tadbhava are used respectively as 'directly borrowed/like' and 'derived from/originated from' sanskrit. So I was wondering if tôdbhôb explained as - native Bengali vocabulary is a correct translation. Both the words tatsama and taddbhava are sanskrit words with the meaning as I explained above and tôdbhôb definately sound like Tadbhava. -- Kaveri 20:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
" but the main point is that the labels as they are in the article are accurate".
Yes, but in this case, Bengali and Marathi (as languages) are derived from Sanskrit, so "tadbhava" can mean both "derived from Sanskrit" and "native". In Bengali, at least, tadbhava words are the Sanskrit-derived Prakrit words that were inherited into Bengali as it evolved out of Prakrit. Thus, they were the base of the language's vocabulary when the language began to develop out of Prakrit. Any Sanskrit word borrowed after that point is "tatsama", and any non-Sanskrit-derived word coined in Bengali after that point is "deshi". This is similar to Spanish and Latin. The core vocabulary of Spanish is simply Latin-derived words that evolved into what became the beginnings of Spanish (like "tadbhava"). But Spanish also re-borrowed Latin words after Latin had already ceased to be a spoken language and Spanish had already formed into an independent language. These re-borrowed words could be thought of as "tatsama". Then of course a few words simply came about independently in the Spanish-speaking world ("deshi").
One must remember that all languages came from other languages. That doesn't mean they all borrowed their vocabulary from other languages. Every language inherits some words and borrows others. Bengali inherited a large vocabulary from its parent language Prakrit, which inherited its vocabulary from its parent language, Sanskrit. These are not borrowings, as the words form a direct line of evolution down from Sanskrit through Prakrit to Bengali. These would be called "native words" by most linguists and "tadbhava words" by Indian scholars. Then of course Bengalis (and presumably Marathi-speakers as well) borrowed more Sanskrit vocabulary to supplement the vocabulary they already inherited. These are the "tatsama" words. Anyhow, I'm not so good at explaining things when I'm not talking to someone in person... so I really apologize if this isn't helping! -- SameerKhan 07:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I have created Tatsama and would appreciate contribution from Bangla scholars. I myself am mainly busy with Sinhala alphabet, but I find it very interesting that very similar socio-etymological patterns are found in Bangla and Sinhala Jasy jatere 19:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
This school webpage:
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |rank=
ignored (
help)is based on 1999 ethnologue.com data and is clearly not WP:RS. The article is already referring to the 2007 encarta data (rank 6) and the 2005 ethnologue data (rank 5); if there are other trustworthy sources, let's have them.
The ignatius high school thing is not even a proper study :)) Its just random rambling and opinion of the school. It is very funny that someone cited this as an original source :)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.98.104.139 ( talk) 22:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Also, I feel Ekushe february is an important aspect distinguising Bengali and the power the language holds on its people; added a brief summary on this in the lead. mukerjee ( talk) 21:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to have the words "widely spoken" rephrased to something else, because Bengali is not exactly one of the most widely spoken languages in the world. "Widely" primarily means "over a great (geographical) extent".-- Zaheen 03:59, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
from iqbal50000: "WIDELY SPOKEN" DOES ACTUALLY MEAN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO SPEAK IT, AND NOT THE SIZE OF THE AREAS ITS SPOKEN IN! IF THAT WAS THE CASE, ENGLISH, SPANISH, RUSSIAN, WOULD BE CONSIDERED AS MORE "WIDELY SPOKEN" THAN MANDARIN, SINCE THESE LANGUAGES COVER MORE AREAS! THE TERM "WIDELY SPOKEN" IN THIS CONTEXT, IS USED IN ALL THE PUBLISHED SOURCES I ENCOUNTERED SO FAR IN MY LIFE. CAN YOU GIVE ANY PUBLISHED/PEER-REVIEWED SOURCES, WHERE ANOTHER PHRASE IS USED INSTEAD OF "WIDELY SPOKEN" IN THE CONTEXT OF NUMBER OF SPEAKERS OF A LANGUAGES? IF SO PLEASE PRESENT IT, SINCE I AM YET TO SEE SUCH SOURCES.
BENGALI IS SPOKEN BY A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AS MOTHER TONGUE, AND THATS WHAT IT MEANS WHEN THE PHRASE "WIDELY SPOKEN" IS USED. AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, THIS IS THE USUAL TERMINOLOGY IN THE FIELD. BENGALI/BANGLA IS SOMETIMES CONSIDERED AS ONE OF THE WORLDS ARTERIAL LANGUAGES, AS ITS A COMMON MEANS OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE, WHO ARE ONE OF THE LARGEST LINGUISTIC GROUPS OF THE PLANET. THERE'S OVER 3500 LANGUAGES IN THE WORLD, AND BANGLA IS THE SIXTH!.BEST REGARDS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.81.167 ( talk) 18:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, you seem to be right. Widely does mean "among a large number of people" here. I forgot about the secondary meaning of the word. On a different note, could you not use all caps? Basic netiquette. -- Zaheen 23:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
All other wikipedia articles which cite sources indicate a lower number of speakers than that. Although these may be outdated due to population growth, it's still our job to use the cited numbers. I'm not too sure what to write though, but I added the dubious tag because this info is likely to be wrong (concerning the number of speakers). Althena ( talk) 07:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
is it a joke this article and every article related Bangla ( Bengali) there was a lots of lots of bangla latter typing mistake . there is no The Bengali consonant clusters Latter ( juktakkhor in Bengali) . Why ??? . The "oukar" ঔ / কৌ and okar ও / কো Latter is totally wrong . wrong type oukar " কৌ " right type oukar is " ৈকা similarly wrong type okar কো right type েকা . if u dont change it . some time its convey deferent meaning and maximam time no meaning. its just look like " wkipidaeio.gr " does it has any meaing or "wikipedia.org has meaning . person who dont know bangla will think this is "কৌ" right type . thats not good for bangla launge . --Blogsd ! 21:54, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Why is the article called Bengali and Not Bangla —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.193.170.34 ( talk) 14:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
The article gives the impression that UNESCO celebrates IMLD as a sort of commemoration of the event in 1952. However, the UNESCO website ( [2]) does not make this connection. My guess is that the idea came about independently, and then the day was picked to synchronize with the Bangladesh holiday. Someone should rewrite this accordingly and cite appropriately. (Also, the subsequently gives the impression that the two events happened close together in time. However, the firings were in 1952 and IMLD came about in 1999.)-- Regents Park ( moult with my mallards) 17:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
This book (full-text available online) may be used as an additional source in this article. Arman ( Talk) 02:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I’m confused as to how the this vowel should be pronounced. According to the table in the phonology section, ê is a low-mid front unrounded vowel, which is indicated with an epsilon [ɛ] in IPA. The symbol [æ] is a low front unrounded vowel, which would be placed one box lower in the table. According to my understanding of IPA, either the symbol [æ] is incorrect, or it’s placement in the table is wrong. languagegeek ( talk) 06:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Two topics regarding romanization of Bengali are presented at Talk:Bengali script. Please discuss them there if you care. — AjaxSmack 01:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
There is an opportunity to add the Bengali version of the English imperative phrase "Imagine Peace" to the In Other Languages section of Yoko Ono's Imagine Peace Tower. Use the proper script if possible, and put all in upper case if applicable. Insert in the list alphabetically. If a choice of expression, select that used by "the common man". Thanks. Irv ( talk) 20:29, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
I have fixed some Banglapedia links, but possibly not all of them. The old URLs of the form
no longer work. Instead, you have to use
(with uppercase HTM!)
Thnidu ( talk) 20:29, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Which variety of English is the article supposed to be using? I am seeing both UK and US spellings.
Not a crisis. Just asking.
Varlaam (
talk)
15:40, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
I was wondering why the faithful-to-script transliteration of the sample text uses ITRANS instead of the National Library at Kolkata romanization, which is considered more standard and academic. It seems that Wikipedia policy ( Wikipedia:Indic transliteration scheme) is to use ISO 15919, which is basically identical to NLK. I'd like to change the ITRANS text to NLK/ISO if no one is opposed. Bʌsʌwʌʟʌ Speak up! 00:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi, editors of Bengali language. I'm currently working on cleaning up the Lingua franca page, on which Bengali is currently listed. I'd like your input on this issue. First, the definition of a lingua franca, per that page, is " a language systematically used to communicate between persons not sharing a mother tongue, in particular when it is a third language, distinct from both persons' mother tongues." Based on my initial reading of this page, I'm inclined to say that Bengali does not actually meet this criteria--that is, that Bengali is actually the native language of people who regularly use it. It's clearly both the official and national language of Bangaldesh. In India, though, I'm unclear how it's used. Is it mainly spoken as a native language? Or are there a large group of people who learn Bengali as a second (or third, etc.) language as a means of communicating with others who don't share their own language? For instance, English clearly meets the definition of lingua franca for India, and Hindi probably does as well, as they are learned as second languages for the purpose of communicating with people of different native languages. But I can't tell if Bengali fits this category. I appreciate any input you can give me on this issue. Qwyrxian ( talk) 06:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
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I've adjusted the "official status" of the language in Sierra Leone to just a mention of the announcement, because nothing seems to have been done about it since 2002. Usually, official status requires some form of legislation.
Dbfirs
07:18, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
By the way, maybe a note should be attached in the "countries where Bengali has official status" to explain the formal character of the face. Lori 18/11/2012 03:16 GMT+1
I made a slight change to the comment on Shadhu Bhasha being "negligible" in modern writing, as it can still be found on street signs in Bangladesh, as in the very common phrase নির্মাণ কাজ চলিতেছে nirman kaj cholitechhe ("construction work is in progress"), which would be নির্মাণ কাজ চলছে nirman kaj cholchhe in Manno Cholit Bhasha. I've seen this myself in Dhaka, and I also found a photo on a blog with the same text: http://media.somewhereinblog.net/images/pervezctg_1247376852_3-image004.jpg -- SameerKhan ( talk) 17:13, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
I don't know where this person got this paragraph from. It was in the history section, and someone added a citation needed tag in April of this year. But clearly, it doesn't reflect any generally accepted linguistic perspective, if any perspective at all. Even linguistic macrofamily hypotheses don't posit similarities in syntax between the disparate languages and families.
"The influence of the Turkic languages of Central Asia can also be seen in Bengali and the other Indo-Aryan languages of non-peninsular India. More significantly, although the vocabulary bases are quite different, the Indo-Aryan languages share, with the Dravidian languages to their south, and with Turkic and certain other language groups of Eurasia (extending even to Mongolian, Korean and Japanese) a similar syntax (especially as regards word-order and the use of post-positions and other devices). This points, perhaps, to deep ancient connections among the people now speaking these languages that differ so much in vocabulary. These connections may have been obscured by conquests—and the subsequent adoption, in ancient times, of much of the vocabulary (but far less of the syntax) of the languages of conquerors such as the Arya by the conquered peoples of Bengal—and other places in South Asia where Indo-Aryan tongues are currently spoken. citation needed"
Fmqtr3754 ( talk) 07:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
The introduction noted "With a long and rich literary tradition." Bengali literature dates back to 10th and 11th centuries, when Bengali along with the other New Indo-Aryan languages arose, but copious literature dates only from the mid-19th century, the start of what is termed the Bengali Renaissance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fmqtr3754 ( talk • contribs) 07:28, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Rigvedic was a written dialect of Indo-Aryan. Any written dialect of a spoken language is not the only dialect that is spoken. And likewise Rigvedic wasn't the dialect spoken by all Indo-Aryan speakers at the time of its writing just like Shakespeare's and Chaucer's English were not the only English dialects spoken at their time. Take another sacred language closely related to Rigvedic, Older Avestan. It is separated by about 1000 years from Younger Avestan and is not its direct ancestor.
In the case of the early Prakrits (recorded only as the so-called Dramatic Prakrits, as opposed to the late Prakrits, Apabhraṃśa), not only is it expected that they are not a direct continuation of language of the Rigveda, which was composed by an Indo-Aryan-speaking priesthood in the mid-second millennium BCE, like Younger Avestan, morphological (grammatical) and lexical (words) features indicate that they are not a continuation of the older dialect. In fact, the Vedas themselves don't exhibit morphological and lexical continuity.
In summary, it is only a popular conception that "Sanskrit" (in linguistic context, referring only to Classical Sanskrit) is the ancestor of the modern Indo-Aryan languages, just like it is also popularly conceived that Romance languages descend from Latin. But like many popular etymologies, these popular conceptions are actually incorrect. Modern and historical languages are composed of many dialects, not all of which are written down. Likewise, the dialect on which written Bengali was based in the early 19th century was not the only dialect that was spoken.
I made a revert to this edit made in July:
Along with other Eastern Indo-Aryan languages, Bengali evolved circa 1000–1200 AD from the Magadhi Prakrit, which developed from a dialect or group of dialects that were close to, but different from, Vedic and Classical Sanskrit. [1] It is now the primary language spoken in Bangladesh and is the second most commonly spoken language in India. [2] [3]
to:
Along with other Eastern Indo-Aryan languages, Bengali evolved from the Magadhi Prakrit and Sanskrit languages. It is now the primary language spoken in Bangladesh and is the second most commonly spoken language in India. [2] [3] All the Indo-Aryan languages including Bengali, Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati, Oriya, Assamese are called the daughters of Sanskrit. For counter-views regarding such deterministic linear history that leads to historicism (see Althusser), one may browse some different articles. [4] [5] [6]
Frankenstein5689 ( talk) 10:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
References
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Just seen User:Faizan_Al-Badri reverted a sentence of another user, which says "It is also a recognized secondary language in the City of Karachi in Pakistan.". As a Bengali, I don't ever hear about that, my be my lack of knowledge. Could you please provide the reference? Please enlighten me.-- FreemesM (talk) 07:20, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
The spellings "Choltibhasha" and "Shadhubhasha" seem to be in more common use in English than the spelling (and pronunciation) "Cholito bhasha" and "Shadhu-bhasha". I've changed them accordingly at the heads of the bullet points in Bengali language#Spoken and literary varieties, mentioning alternate forms in parens. I've also added a redirect page Shadhubhasha → Shadhu-bhasha.
In general, the spellings are chaotic and should be cleaned up. Further, the beginning text of Bengali dialects#Spoken and literary variants is almost identical to that of Bengali language#Spoken and literary varieties (in this article), but diverges a lot after the bullets, and this article's section has far more references. ISTM that the two sections should be merged, and one transcluded into the other. -- Thnidu ( talk) 17:37, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
ami tumake valobashi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.231.254 ( talk) 16:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
https://archive.org/details/grammarofbengali00forbiala
https://archive.org/details/grammarofbengale00carerich
https://archive.org/details/companiontojohns00mendrich
https://archive.org/details/bengalienglishdi00syke
https://archive.org/details/dictionaryoflawo00robiuoft
https://archive.org/details/dictionarybengal1687haug
https://archive.org/details/adictionaryprin00unkngoog
https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofprin00drozrich
https://archive.org/details/originofbengalis00rakhuoft
https://archive.org/details/historyofbengali00sendrich
https://archive.org/details/historyofbengali00mazuiala
https://archive.org/details/historyofbengali00vijauoft
https://archive.org/details/aranyasanhitaofs00kuth
https://archive.org/details/holybibleinbenga00brit
https://archive.org/details/psalmsofdavidpro00weng
https://archive.org/details/gospelsaccording00elle
https://archive.org/details/mrklikhitasusa00thom
https://archive.org/details/catalogueofbenga00brit
https://archive.org/details/bengalisuppcatal00brit
https://archive.org/details/bengalibooksinli00brit
Rajmaan ( talk) 23:44, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I reverted a revert on my insertion of internal links to pages on official language and national language. Not clear on what criteria the links were removed.-- A12n ( talk) 14:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
When discussing topics that aren't Bangla proper - such as Apabhramshas, Prakrits and the like - we should use the standard forms most commonly used in the appropriate English literature. There is no cause to spell Apabhramsha "opôbhrômsho", for example, since the entirety of scholarly works in English (and outside any Bongo publications) use the spelling "Apabhramsha" or the IAST equivalent. It is needlessly obscurantist. Also, if you have an objection to an edit that has a few single word changes in it and many other changes as well, there's no call to revert the entire edit. Please note Wikipedia:Indic transliteration applies to periods before Bengali; and even if you were to disagree on that, Romanization of Bengali even specifies "In addition, when representing a Bengali word to allow speakers of other languages to pronounce it easily, it may be better to use a transcription, which does not include the silent letters and other idiosyncrasies (e.g. স্বাস্থ্য sbasthyô, spelled <swāsthya>, or অজ্ঞান ôggên, spelled <ajñāna>) that make Bengali romanization so complicated." Ogress smash! 13:38, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
Not all of Ogress' edit are wrong, so বব২৬ should not revert everything. But again, Ogress went on restoring and editing disputed content before discussing properly. Both should, either have seek a WP:3O or resolved it in discussion. In a way বব২৬'s attempt to restore to earlier version is correct, as it is a norm to keep the article in rest to a previous version until a consensus is reached. I'd carefully see each edits and comment on them later. – nafSadh did say 19:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
In addition, when representing a Bengali word to allow speakers of other languages to pronounce it easily, it may be better to use a transcription, which does not include the silent letters and other idiosyncrasies (e.g. স্বাস্থ্য sbasthyô, spelled <swāsthya>, or অজ্ঞান ôggên, spelled <ajñāna>) that make Bengali romanization so complicated.
There's a discrepancy of 70 million speakers between the lede and the infobox. Why is this? FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 17:24, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
I have posted a talk topic on the Telugu language talk page on an apparent discrepancy between the Telugu and Bengali articles concerning Sanskrit ancestry. Thisisnotatest ( talk) 23:39, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
However, since this change is not as widespread and is not being followed as uniformly in the rest of the Bengali printed literature, today's Bengali-learning children will possibly have to learn to recognize both the new "transparent" and the old "opaque" forms, which ultimately amounts to an increase in learning burden.
If the logic behind that conclusion was as impeccable as it wishes to appear, one could make the same claim about children learning English with Mother Goose in hieroglyphics as an intermediate step, which I certainly wouldn't myself.
The above statement is not supported by the theory of learning as I understand it. Even in software development there's a maxim that sometimes the shortest path to a working system is to write it twice, with the prototype going directly into the round file once its purpose (bootstrapping the process) has run its course.
I thus regard the above statement as unsubstantiated conjecture. — MaxEnt 03:54, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
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In the eight amendment to the constitution of Bangladesh in 1988, "Bengali" was replaced with "Bangla". Government documents write Bangla, not Bengali. So I think the page should be moved to Bangla language. If "Kolkata" can replace "Calcutta", why can't "Bangla" replace "Bengali"? What do you say? - Smmmaniruzzaman ( talk) 04:50, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
I support the name change. People of Bengal region (both Bangladesh and West Bengal) calls this language Bangla. I fail to see why the Wikipedia article should call it Bengali. Shopnochura ( talk) 11:37, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
Strongly, very strongly disagree. The common norm is that the local language speaking community decides how they are going to spell foreign names. Otherwise we will have to call Japanese "nihongo", Chinese "Putonghua" or some such. This is madness. We will then have to rename every single language's name in all the languages in the world to reflect the local pronunciation. This is NOT how language works. Every language community interprets and spells foreign names in their own way. A foreign language speaker doesn't determine the spelling of the local language. That has historically been the overwhelmingly common way of doing things. The same people who prefer "Bangla" would never prefer to rename other language names in their own Bengali language. Because that would be madness. It would deny hundreds of years of naming tradition in Bengali. For example Japanese is called "Japani" in Bengali. We have millions of texts where "japani" is used. It will probably never be converted to ""nihongo". Just like that, it has been hundreds of years and milions of texts where the English writers have used "Bengali". It would be equally absurd to change it. NOBODY CARES. Only a misguided foreign person who has misappropriated the English language as his own would feel this kind of absurd entitlement to change the language of the Anglo-Saxons. This is unwarranted overreach. Zaheen ( talk) 20:25, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Strong Oppose - Wikipedia uses the most common name worldwide and not any official name. Also Bengali is not limited to Bangladesh, Indian states of West Bengal and Tripura uses the term Bengali to till this date. -- Manasbose ( talk | edits) 19:58, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Strongly Oppose - Bengali is the English name for the language. By that logic, German language should be renamed to Deutsch. UserNumber ( talk) 14:07, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Oppose - This is an English Wikipedia, thus we will be using the WP:COMMONNAME that appears in the "English" sources, which is Bengali and not Bangla. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 14:30, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
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Please see this discussion about a recent change from "Bengali" to "Bangla" in the Mediawiki software. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 23:05, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
The world map that was previously displayed on this page shows the Bangladeshi diaspora, which is not the same as the Bengali-speaking people worldwide. I have removed it pending a more accurate map. Gamesmaster G-9 ( talk) 09:00, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Certainly doesn't belong in the lead or infobox- there don't seem to be any (SL) government sources that support this. It should either be removed completely or moved elsewhere/to another page, like foreign relations between SL and BD or something. Also see archived section from 2011/2012; not sure exactly what was decided though. Also see Talk:Sierra Leone and search "Bengali" and "Bangla": seems like the consensus there is that Bengali is not actually an official language, despite whatever the president stated once. ʙʌsʌwʌʟʌ тʌʟк 22:19, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
A map appears in the infobox, captioned "Bengali speaking region of South Asia". Another map appears in the Dialects section, captioned "Bengali-speaking zone in South Asia." They are very nearly the same map, except in one the region is blue and in the other it is red, and also the shape is slightly different. It isn't right to have both of them, but I don't know which one to remove. Bruce leverett ( talk) 01:33, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
I've watched the truth information in media where it's never been wrong. And I've watched in many websites and many peoples also know it like me.
The government of Sierra Leone don't use Bangla as their official language, but the constitution of Sierra Leone have written to accepted as Bangla is their official language by respectfully. Sjsagorbd ( talk) 13:29, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
Please read thoroughly about Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages guidelines for improvement in Bengali language article. Read articles like Tamil language, Danish language or English language these are all featured or Good articles. Please ensure that Bengali language do get a FA or Good article status.-- Priyansh90 ( talk) 06:52, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
With approximately 260–300 million total speakers worldwide, ...
Whereas the article Indo-Aryan languages presently gives the number as 242 million speakers. — MaxEnt 06:49, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
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