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I'm hearing from musical historian that B&S are reminisent of Fairport Convention, is this true? -- ConradKilroy 21:01, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Editing in Simple Minds to the list of Scottish bands
Hey, Tokerboy: Tigermilk, If You're Feeling Sinister, Lazy Line Painter Jane, Dog on Wheels, and Legal Man all say and. Danny P.S. Storytelling too.
That's 11 'And's and 8 '&'s, obviously not enough to make a decision either way so I think it would be best to follow the Wikipedia guidelines and move it back to Belle & Sebastian.
"Unless you know otherwise, the word and in band names is always an ampersand (&), as in Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers, Jan & Dean, Richard Hell & the Voidoids"
Are we drawing a distinction between singles and eps, and if so, what exactly is the distinction? Is it a single if its title matches the title of one of the songs? Or is it based on track count (<=3; >=4)? kevinb9n
I've edited so that records where the record title matches the title of the first track are listed as singles, and other records which were eligible to appear in the singles chart are listed as EPs. Initially (ie, up to and including This Is Just A Modern Rock Song), all the band's singles and EPs had four tracks; they changed to three when the UK singles chart stopped including records with more than three different tracks. SleepyCaitlin
The article states that B&S were voted best band in Scotland, but fails to mention what organization conducted the poll.
I suppose I could just remove the links again with the edit summary "removed links". Instead I'll put them here and ask why we should ignore the Wikipedia:External links guideline? - brenneman (t) (c) 14:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I was surprised to see that the entry had no reference to Belle & Sebastian's U.S. involvement with Matador Records, so I added the info as a parenthetical aside next to the info about the move from Jeepster to Rough Trade. I also added info about Storytelling and Belle & Sebastian references on U.S. TV shows as evidence of the band's growing influence and fame on American shores. Andrewjnyc 19:12, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Why do people keep reverting the band's lead-in to say just pop or indie instead of twee pop? Twee pop is the most accurate representation I can think of for the band, and it's been that way in this article for as long as I can remember. If someone could present some actual arguments as to why the band isn't twee, that'd be great. Otherwise I'll just keep reverting people's edits. Folkor 09:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, the word "twee" has acquired semipejorative connotations as an adjective meaning something that is overly and /or self-consciously cute. For that reason, the label could be misread as dismissive toward the band. In addition, a lot of B&S material has a "classical" pop sound to it that makes it seem inappropriate to shoehorn them into a subgenre like "twee". The Life Pursuit, for example, feels to me more like Arthur/Village Green Preservation Society-era Kinks than it does anything I'd call twee.-- Andrewjnyc 22:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't and can't categorise music, but my 2cents... B&S have never striked me as twee. Soft, they may frequently be, but they've always had balls. That's not very twee. SaltyWater 01:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
When a band has a catalogue as extensive as Belle & Sebastian's, what kind of utter bozo claims to be an authority on "the most accurate" description of their music based on a judgment "solely" formed from listening to one album? I don't so much object to the word "twee" as to the false impression that someone is making knowledgeable pronouncements when really that person has no clue. Matt, 8 March, 2006
I reworded it to mention the application of 'twee pop' only to their early music. I think you'd find it very hard to call more than a handful of tracks from DCW or TLP that sound even a little twee. TLP, in particular, is not twee at all. I think this is a fair enough change but feel free to discuss / change back. 121.44.98.174 15:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Someone keeps adding something saying B&S are "geek rock". What a load of bullshit. I think its fair to remove any future edits as such. Notice that B&S don't actually fit into the description on the geek rock article. SaltyWater 23:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Intention is to merge these to Category:Belle & Sebastian albums.
People should make their thoughts known on the Wikipedia:Categories for deletion page (search the page for it, it isn't directly linked). -- DaveG12345 01:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and changed all the tags on the B&S albums/comps to "Chamber" from "Twee" or "Indie" because there seemed to be a consensus. Mchmike 04:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the History section is getting a little unwieldy and should be split into subsections. It would go pretty comfortably into
Yes? No? Other organization schemes?
3 days later: I'll take that silence as agreement, so I'm just going to go ahead and divide it up.
Dan Slimmon 22:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm the one who added the "Cas(s)aco Marron" single info... and yet I'm confused. The cover of the single spells it with one S, and while I don't have the "LateNightTales" CD case handy, I believe that does too. And yet I'm pretty sure the original song is rightly spelled with two S's; B&S/Azuli just messed up. Which spelling should we be using? Charolastra charolo 05:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Justification for whether they should be characterised x or y. whats that got to do with their 12 year career and influence ? The intro article should sum up what they've done, impact, how they've changed, ? By the way. not that it matters but audio galaxy classify them as Folk Rock, Indie Rock, Chamber Pop, Indie Pop, Modern Rock...not just chamber pop. Jem 13:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes most of the wikipedia articles suffer from this tremendous shortcoming, where people try to classify music as if its food or something...
This article is especially ridiculous in that respect. For instance, if someone wants to expand on the similarites between Bob Dylan, Love, and B&S, I'd love to hear it.
Trefalcon (
talk)
00:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Image:BelleAndSebastianLazyLinePainterJaneBoxset.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Image:Dearcatastrophecover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Image:FoldYourHandsChildCover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Why have it in the intro and the box?? 147.136.249.101 03:08, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. -- Merope 18:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
This article used to be really good--and quite thorough. What happened to it? 71.171.201.127 06:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
So, after taking a long hard look at the article i noticed the obvious; it's mostly written by fans and it sometimes fails to have a neutral point of view.
Overall
The sections before recent years need to be cleaned up, it has way
too many opinions. There has to be a balance between the positive reviews and the band's failure in reaching the mainstream. The article will be on hold for seven days.-
Yamanbaiia
16:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
the "string of mediocre releases" refers to FYHCYWLAP and Storytelling. I thought that that was clear but obviously I was wrong, so I'll try to clean it up. Oh, and as for the BRIT award, I'm an American, so I couldn't care less about that. :) I assume it's like a Grammy and, if so, it means even less as far as I'm concerned.in Recent years it says that they had a string of mediocre releases and that two albums were poorly-received . But according to the previous section, during the release of those albums they were critically acclaimed and had won recognition worldwide, so which one is it?.
The article is still not neutral, so i am failing it. If you think i'm mistaken feel free to ask for a reassessment. - Yamanbaiia ( talk) 14:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
This article reads like it's from the fan club or the label's marketing department. Playing with the Shins is "historic"? Not to me... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.15.202.84 ( talk) 06:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I believe that some reference should be made to their inclusion to the Juno soundtrack, as it adds to their notability per WP:NMG. It was noted in the article until it was recently taken off by User:Faithlessthewonderboy, giving the reason of "...Their songs have been featured in many films, there's no reason to mention them all..." As a big fan of Belle and Sebastian, I can not recall "many films" that they have been featured in, but if I am wrong, please tell me...still, Juno is an immensely popular movie, Oscar nominated might I add, so i do believe that it is more than notable to add to the article...
I would also like to add that the previous version of the article that did have a mention of the Juno soundtrack did not mention both songs that were featured in the soundtrack...more specifically, it mentioned the song "Expectations" but did not mention "Piazza, New York Catcher." Fanofranz ( talk) 13:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Having a song on a movie soundtrack is not a big deal, especially for a band as big as B&S. They have also appeared in The Devil Wears Prada, One Tree Hill, Shallow Hal, The Ringer, etc. Listing all these does nothing for the article, it's unimportant trivia. faithless (speak) 17:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
In the history section of the article, it is mentioned that " It Could Have Been a Brilliant Career" has been hailed as one of the great songs of all time, and a source is referenced. That's wonderful, but it's a red link, so how "great" is this song really? It seems to be giving undue importance to this one source - could we get some perspective on this? -- Leviel ( talk) 17:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Listen, what one guy said in his book about the song does not make it a 'Hailing'. Besides, he wrote about 1001 great songs, not exactly an exclusive list. This phrase is absurd and should be removed. Trefalcon ( talk) 01:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the wording of the sentence to mention who specifically said this ( Toby Creswell), thereby taking care of any WP:UNDUE concerns. faithless (speak) 23:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
The sentence may now be factually correct and conform to wikipedia rules because of how it has been worded but that still does not make it relevant. 1001 songs may be quite exclusive in the context of every song ever written but in the context of songs that this one particular journalist has heard often enough to form a firm opinion on it is a huge number. Of the 1000 other songs in the book I can find only one (referenced) example of another wikipedia page making note of this apparent accolade - that is for Mudhoney's Touch Me I'm Sick where it is included in a list of sources where the song as been hailed as one of the best ever. Articles for three other songs use the book as a reference; but only for sourcing other information and they do not even bother mentioning its inclusion in this book as a great song. It Could Have Been a Brilliant Career is a minor blip in a substantial career for this band so I feel that to draw attention to this one song is an irrelevance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikifhein ( talk • contribs) 12:03, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with above poster and would like to point out the likelihood that every song ever played on the radio has been hailed as 'the best song ever!' by somebody. It is entirely subjective and as such is the sort of thing you don't find in an encyclopedia. The fact that somebody put their opinion into print, doesnt make it worth repeating. faithless, I think you're definiton of a 'hailing' needs to be revised. If the song was praised in every other music magazine upon its release, and specifically mentioned by a bunch of respected reviewers, that would be a hailing. One guy mentioning it in a book about 1001 other songs, published years after the song came out... more like a drizzle, actually. Trefalcon ( talk) 22:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry faithless but I just don't think you have a case here. It's inclusion has been questioned by me, Trefalcon and Leviel here and again called into doubt further up the page in the GA review section. You seem to be the only one defending this inclusion of yours and it is my opinion that the case against is strong enough for its removal. Wikifhein ( talk) 11:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
A IP user from 76.172.27.37 added to the Albums section of the page "New Album (2010)". I have taken this out. there is no indication in my opinion that a new album will be released in 2010. The Belle & Sebastian email newsletter that i recieved today said "Although the hard work on the next B&S record won’t begin until next year" This gives no indication of when they'll be finished. it only says they intend to start it next year. any other opinions. Should a note to this be added to the bottom of the article. Does not seem to be anything concrete Phil Nolte ( talk) 20:08, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
"Fold Your Hands Child, You Walk Like a Peasant" is described in the article as B&S's first top ten album in the UK. it charted at #84 in the US, yet the the article say it "was not well received." Where's the citation for this or any evidence? Not well received by whom? I believe this part of the article is biased opinion, not fact.
Azjimn2son ( talk) 14:29, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Since the new album name has been revealed, I was just curious as to how people would refer to it on Wikipedia. From Stuart Murdoch's official statement on the Belle & Sebastian website, it seems that the actual name of the album is Belle & Sebastian Write About Love - including the band's name - as opposed to simply Write About Love. Since the references regarding the naming of the album (coming from B&S themselves, in fact) all include the band's name in the title, I have changed instances of Write About Love to Belle & Sebastian Write About Love.
Whenbongoscollide ( talk) 11:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
To add to this, I've copied and pasted what I have written in the discussion for Belle & Sebastian Write About Love, as it definitely applies here too.
People have been shortening the title down to Write About Love - I just wanted to point out that even though the majority of websites do refer to the album merely as Write About Love, Belle & Sebastian themselves have stated the correct title is in fact Belle & Sebastian Write About Love.
from http://www.belleandsebastian.com/qasearchk.php?searchterm=write+about+love
" From: C Q.Aw man, write about love, that song is something else! What an organ solo, definitely Alan price or Rod Argent worthy. But has the album released been pushed back from the 11th of October to the 25th? Gutted.
A. i think it's 'write about love' the single that comes out on 25th; the LP 'belle and sebastian write about love' is still due on the 11th i'm sure.
Sarah - 06/09/10"
"From: margot Q.so will the album title be properly listed as "Belle and Sebastian Write About Love" or just "Write About Love"? In 2005 when Franz released their second album, they called it "You could have it so much better with Franz Ferdinand" but the magazines and shops called it "You could have it so much better with.." I wonder if the same will happen here!
A. It should be 'Belle and Sebastian Write about Love' - as in 'Val Doonican Rocks but Gently'.
Sarah - 14/08/10"
As a result, can people please refrain from moving the page or editing the article to shorten the title down to Write About Love, as it is incorrect.
Whenbongoscollide ( Talk) 13:43, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm hearing it on the fm....wiki on upcoming album lists date as 9-25-10 -Matt B. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_%26_Sebastian_Write_About_Love
72.179.54.13 ( talk) 15:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Surely the band name comes from the black and white French television serial, well known to British kids of the ages of the band members, as opposed to the, more obscure in the UK at least, original French book or later anime? I would be astonished if the cited sources actually state the source of the band name was the book or the anime rather than the serial. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 00:05, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I recall an interview where the band members stated they took the name from the 1960's French TV show. Sadly, I can't remember if I read or heard it. I'm sure if someone looked hard enough, they could find a cite-able reference. I would myself, but I don't think wikipedia is worth it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.6.233 ( talk) 01:02, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
On a related note, whilst it says the band was named after "a 1965 children's book by French writer Cécile Aubry later adapted for television", the very page it links to says that the TV show came first. I don't know which is correct though. -- afrazkhan ( talk) 21:09, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Some explanation has to be provided in the body of the article for the 8 bands that appear in the "associated acts" section of the infobox. How are these bands associated? Have they performed together? Do they share members? Has a notable critic made a comparison of their sound or of one band's influence on the other? Or, as I suspect, are these simply the opinions of fanboy editors? --- The Old Jacobite The '45 02:46, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 16:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Belle & Sebastian → Belle and Sebastian – The band's own website uses the version of the name with "and" rather than the ampersand, and this version is mostly used in the article itself. PatGallacher ( talk) 00:26, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
The article describes If you're feeling sinister as "widely considered the band's masterpiece", while it terms The Boy with the Arab Strap as "often described by critics as the band's best album". This is unclear. I imagine that "widely considered" is stronger than "often described", and "masterpiece" is stronger than "the band's best album", but there's more than a little potential for confusion. Smitse ( talk) 00:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
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The opening paragraph currently contains the statement that the band have had 'limited commercial success' - this is clearly factually incorrect. As can be seen from their discography the band have had 4 top ten albums in the UK, 6 top 20 albums (one of which went top 20 in America). Among these releases are 4 Gold and two Silver discs. They've even had 7 top 40 'hits' in the UK. They have had considerable commercial success would be accurate. Vauxhall1964 ( talk) 16:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
...is the urban dictionary example of 'twee'.
Anyone agree? 78.149.209.149 ( talk) 00:53, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
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