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Please remove this section completely or fix all the nonsense stated here! The section in its current version is derogatory of Azeri people and claims that Azeris of Iran are somehow genetically different to Azeris in Caucasus! References provided to support that [76], [78] don't make such claims. In fact reference [76] implies quite contrary. And reference [78] redirects to page in persian.
Section also makes insulting claims about Azeris being "mixed population" of Europeans, Iranians, Caucasians etc. Firstly, all modern populations are mixed! But I can't see statement line this in Iranian people or German people pages! Secondly, Europeans, Iranians and others mentioned here are not genetically homogeneous people, again as per respective pages, are much more "mixed" than Azeris. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.130.6.175 ( talk) 17:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
As in other ethnic groups , the info box needs a mosaic.PNG file . With current images , the fitness of the images have problems . Please see the same images in
French people mosaic image and
German people.
Besides , please don't forget to include Iranian Azeris such as Ahmad-Kasravi and Khamenyi and Shah ismail [File:Shah Ismail.JPG].--
Alborz Fallah (
talk)
07:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Rewrote the part based on facts. There is no need for POV. Azerbaijan exists and its borders with Russia and present-day Iran were formulated in 1918. Kept the links to Gulistan and Turkmenchay. Atabəy ( talk) 14:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Why is it even a problem here? And why do we need to mention Torkmanchai twice in the lead? Is it the most important thing about Azerbaijani people? It says:
Despite living on two sides of an international border since the treaties of Gulistan (1813) and Turkmenchay (1828), after which Iran lost its then northern territories to Russia, the Azeris form a single ethnic group.
But then a few lines below it says again:
Following the Russian-Persian Wars of the 18th and 19th centuries, Persian territories in the Caucasus were ceded to the Russian Empire and the treaties of Gulistan in 1813 and Turkmenchay in 1828 finalized the borders with Russia and present-day Iran. The formation of Azerbaijan Democratic Republic in 1918 established the primary modern borders with Russia and Persia, now Iran.
I think we should remove the second statement, as repetitive, and find a better wording for the first one. There's no need to go into detail about the treaties, as we have a history section, which describes all the major developments. The lead must contain only the brief introduction about who Azerbaijani people are. Grand master 08:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Babakxorramdin the fact that you refer to Turkey turning the Azeris against Iran shows how misinformed you are. I think you should read the history of this region before making unverified claims. I agree with Grandmaster the introduction is convoluted and should be describing who the Azeris are rather than focussing on the border changes in the 19th and 20th centuries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.235.132 ( talk) 08:58, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
According to the given source, the CIA world factbook, the population of Azerbaijan is 8,238,672 per July 2009, also source 6 doesnt seem to work anymore. I changed the population number according to this. Baku87 ( talk) 19:24, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I just added a photo I took of a girl in Khachmaz under Azeris in Azerbaijan. RetlawSnellac ( talk) 14:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what in the heck that is supposed to mean, from my experience in Azerbaijan, Azeris from the north and the south are just "Azeris". "Turko-Iranian" is what Iranians call Azeris; it's not the other way around!! Can someone please remove this paragraph? 174.18.11.130 ( talk) 03:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I have reverted recent edits that seemed like POV to me, and restored the last (IMO) stable version from 10:03, 27 September 2009 by User:Neftchi. Please discuss any further edits. Tajik ( talk) 14:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
The current statistics seem rather outdated, here is the UN based report on the 2008 population of Azerbaijani Republic, which is 8,832,000. The statistics should be updated based on the UN report and this should be reflected in the article. Neftchi ( talk) 17:31, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Our Country is called Azerbaijan. Please Wikipedia, change the name of the page to People of Azerbaijan or Azerbaijan people. We, Azerbaijan people do not like to be called Azerbaijanian, Azeris, Azerbaijanis, Azers or other names that various foreign people call us without prompting for a correct way. The Republic of Azerbaijan is never to be the Azerbaijani Republic, if it was - then i wouldn't be writting here. I mean it doesn't sound awful or disrespectful, it's simply incorrect. There is a page "Azerbaijani language" too which needs to be changed to Azerbaijan Language. That's all, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fərman ( talk • contribs) 22:04, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
The parts regarding turkification , origin, Iranian origin and genetics should be seriously and neutrally reviewed. I think these parts are dominated mainly by ethnocentric pan Iranic writers. Amir.azeri ( talk) 10:40, 12 April 2010 (UTC) You can't dispute something that you do not like. Also you cannot commit original research and debates in wikipedia see WP:OR. All you can do is bring valid Western peer reviewed and modern academic sources (written by well known and established scholars) that contradict the position of the article and provide it as an alternative position. As per your false claim that the sources are ethnocentric (which only shows that your sources are), see these sources:
Tadeusz Swietochowski (Russian Azerbaijan, 1905-1920: The Shaping of a National Identity in a Muslim Community, Cambridge University Press, 1985 ) "Azerbaijan maintained its national character after its conquest by the Arabs in the mid-seventh century a.d. and its subsequent conversion to Islam. At this time it became a province in the early Muslim empire. Only in the 11th century, when Oghuz Turkic tribes under the Seljuk dynasty entered the country, did Azerbaijan acquire a significant number of Turkic inhabitants. The original Persian population became fused with the Turks, and gradually the Persian language was supplanted by a Turkic dialect that evolved into the distinct Azeri language. The process of Turkification was long and complex, sustained by successive waves of incoming nomads from Central Asia"
Vladimir Minorsky:
"The original sedentary population of Azarbayjan consisted of a mass of peasants and at the time of the Arab conquest was compromised under the semi-contemptuous term of Uluj ("non-Arab")-somewhat similar to the raya (*ri’aya) of the Ottoman empire. The only arms of this peaceful rustic population were slings, see Tabari, II, 1379-89. They spoke a number of dialects (Adhari(Azari), Talishi) of which even now there remains some islets surviving amidst the Turkish speaking population. It was this basic population on which Babak leaned in his revolt against the caliphate."
(V. Minorsky, Studies in Caucasian history, Cambridge University Press, 1957, pg 112)
Vladimir Minorsky.
See also Encyclopedia Britannica under Azerbaijani people.
There is a good Russian book as well:
(“History of the East” (“Transcaucasia in XI-XV centuries” in Rostislav Borisovich Rybakov (editor), History of the East. 6 volumes. v. 2. “East during the Middle Ages: Chapter V., 2002. –
ISBN
5-02-017711-3.
http://gumilevica.kulichki.com/HE2/he2510.htm )
I would serisouly read
WP:FORUM,
WP:OR and
WP:RS if I were you. Turkicization of the population of Azerbaijan and Caucasus is a well sourced
WP:RS fact. Since you are a new user, you do not know that you can't use dispute tag if you don't like an idea (here a well known historical fact). You need to use it only when you have other valid academic academic sources that dispute what is in the article and those sources have the same
WP:weight and are not
WP:fringe. So again dispute tag is only for something that does not have multiple
WP:RS references, not for
WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Read these guidelines so you become familiar with wikipedia as the argument you brought above belongs to a forum
WP:forum and
WP:soapbox. Since you are a new user, I took time to make you familiar with policy but just throwing dispute tags and justifying it with
WP:soapbox comments can warrant administration action. --
Pahlavannariman (
talk)
09:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
.-- Alborz Fallah ( talk) 13:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
To Amir. It doesn't matter if 500 people in the talkpage dispute something or have a different opinion. So you are wrong when you say: "comments from other viewers would be supporting my action of dispute". That is not how things work. What they need according to wikipedia rules is
WP:RS sources. Personal opinions does not justify tags. So when you say "Turkification is fake"(and say 20 million people say it also), then you need academic
WP:RS sources stating that it is fake (and by sources I mean real Western academic sources not local nationalistic sources).
For example:
Olivier Roy. “The new Central Asia”, I.B. Tauris, 2007. Pp 7: "The mass of the Oghuz Turkic tribes who crossed the Amu Darya towards the west left the Iranian plateau, which remained Persian, and established themselves more to the west, in Anatolia. Here they divided into Ottomans, who were Sunni and settled, and Turkmens, who were nomads and in part Shiite (or, rather, Alevi). The latter were to keep the name “Turkmen” for a long time: from the 13th century onwards they “Turkised” the Iranian populations of Azerbaijan (who spoke west Iranian languages such as Tat, which is still found in residual forms), thus creating a new identity based on Shiism and the use of Turkish. These are the people today known as Azeris."
So if you have comparable Western academic sources (that are modern) which has a totally different take on history (and are academic and published in peer review journals and by well known publishers and are not WP:fringe), then bring it.
As per Persification/Iranicization (since say the Medes) that does not relate to this article necessarily, since what is relevant is that the Persophone/Iranophone population became Turkicized and the synthesis created the modern Azeris. The Iranicization/Persification of the Iranian plateau is relevant to an article that discusses Persians. Also the timeframe between the Seljuqs and Sassanids is not one or two centuries. It is 800 years (the advent of Sassanids around 220 A.D. and the Seljuqs coming to the area around 1070 A.D.). Before that, the Parthians, Achaemenids, Medes also contributed to the Iranicization.
As per the genetic section, if you believe that section is wrong, you should not put a whole dispute tag in the article. But simply on that section (and justifying by academic sources or sources that have a different opinion). As far as I know, there is no dispute about the closeness of the genetics of the Armenians and Azeris of the Caucasus. The same is true for other adaject neighbors. That is simply saying Azeri genetics or Persian genetics or Armenian genetics are closer to each other than say Yakuts in Siberia or Kirghyz in Central Asia, or Germans in Europe. However the Turkification section is not disputed academically but the genetics is a relatively new area and more samples will always help. Note I did find one other study which confirms the other study. See what it says [7]. "Indeed, the different Iranian populations show a striking degree of homogeneity." If you look at the figures "TI" represents Iranian Azerbaijanis. See for example Figure 1 and ..
However there is no reason to put a dispute tag for the whole article. You can just put an expert tag on the genetic section of this article . Since you are new, I would read WP:RS, WP:fringe, WP:weight, WP:FORUM, WP:SOAPBOX, WP:BATTLE, WP:ATTACK and specially WP:OR. Thanks.-- Pahlavannariman ( talk) 16:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I think Alborz explained it. Amir, you are wasting time if you think you can quote a loony like Asgharzadeh and go against experts in the region and waste the time of users. [9]. The publisher itself is not sufficient, the books must be written by historians. Asgharzadeh quotes the likes of Pourpirar and Zehtabi (who believed the Medes and Sumerians were Turks) and is just a political rant. It starts manipulating statistics and goes on to manipulate history. Swietchowski is at least a modern historian (since you brought specialty) and a full professor. Asgharzadeh is simply a lecturer (paid to teach courses on sociology). Here are some other nonsense from Asgharzadeh. Now note his article here: [10]
“In The Ancient History of Iranian Turks, Professor M.T. Zehtabi traced the origin of current Azeris to ancient Sumerian and Ilamite civilizations, dating back over 5,000 years.”
Pure nonsense and Turkish nationalism. These are the sort fringe views that have no place in Wikipedia. It is not only us Iranians (me and Alborz) who oppose this nonsense but generally non-Turkish editors will make sure such nonsense is not inserted.
Asgharzadeh:"Around the eleventh and twelfth centuries, Azeri language and literature flourished under the rule of Shirvanshahs.”
Not a single work in the Azeri Turkish (for Asgharzadeh Azeri=turkish) language is from this era! Shirvanshah were not actually Turkish speaking. They were a mixture of Iranic and Arabic people and were thoroughly Persianized by the 11th/12th century.( Barthold, W., C.E. Bosworth "Shirwan Shah, Sharwan Shah. "Encyclopaedia of Islam. Edited by: P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel and W.P. Heinrichs. Brill, 2nd edition). Indeed the Shirvanshah proudly claimed descent from Sassanids. So where is the example of "Azeri Turkish" literature from the 12th century Shirvanshah?
Asgharzadeh: "Aside from Dede Qorqut Kitabi, there are other common Turkic works, such as Diwan Lughat at-Turk written by Mahmud of Kashghar in 1072-73 and Qutadghu Bilig written by Yusuf Khas Hajeb in 1077, that bear witness to the early literary works in the Azerbaijani language."
Actually that is incorrect. Modern scholars put Dede Qorqut around 14th-16th century. And the works of Uighyurs like Mahmud Kashgari and Qudaghdu Bilig are in Eastern Turkic and have nothing to do with Azerbaijani language. It is like claiming English and German to have the same literature due to their anglo-saxon roots or that the Zoroastrian Iranian language and book Avesta is modern Persian literature.
So as you can see, the guy you are quoting is WP:fringe, WP:UNDO and wikipedia will not quote this nonsense.
Now here are some real scholars.
Professor Peter Golden has written one the most comprehensive book on Turkic people called An Introduction to the History of the Turkic Peoples (Peter B. Golden. Otto Harrasowitz, 1992). pg 386:
“ | Turkic penetration probably began in the Hunnic era and its aftermath. Steady pressure from Turkic nomads was typical of the Khazar era, although there are no unambiguous references to permanent settlements. These most certainly occurred with the arrival of the Oguz in the 11th century. The Turkicization of much of Azarbayjan, according to Soviet scholars, was completed largely during the Ilxanid period if not by late Seljuk times. Sumer, placing a slightly different emphasis on the data (more correct in my view), posts three periods which Turkicization took place: Seljuk, Mongol and Post-Mongol (Qara Qoyunlu, Aq Qoyunlu and Safavid). In the first two, Oguz Turkic tribes advanced or were driven to the western frontiers (Anatolia) and Northern Azarbaijan (Arran, the Mugan steppe). In the last period, the Turkic elements in Iran (derived from Oguz, with lesser admixture of Uygur, Qipchaq, Qaluq and other Turks brought to Iran during the Chinggisid era, as well as Turkicized Mongols) were joined now by Anatolian Turks migrating back to Iran. This marked the final stage of Turkicization. Although there is some evidence for the presence of Qipchaqs among the Turkic tribes coming to this region, there is little doubt that the critical mass which brought about this linguistic shift was provided by the same Oguz-Turkmen tribes that had come to Anatolia. The Azeris of today are an overwhelmingly sedentary, detribalized people. Anthropologically, they are little distinguished from the Iranian neighbors. | ” |
John Perry:
“ | “We should distinguish two complementary ways in which the advent of the Turks affected the language map of Iran. First, since the Turkish-speaking rulers of most Iranian polities from the Ghaznavids and Seljuks onward were already iranized and patronized Persian literature in their domains, the expansion of Turk-ruled empires served to expand the territorial domain of written Persian into the conquered areas, notably Anatolia and Central and South Asia. Secondly, the influx of massive Turkish-speaking populations (culminating with the rank and file of the Mongol armies) and their settlement in large areas of Iran (particularly in Azerbaijan and the northwest), progressively turkicized local speakers of Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages | ” |
(John Perry. Iran & the Caucasus, Vol. 5, (2001), pp. 193-200. THE HISTORICAL ROLE OF TURKISH IN RELATION TO PERSIAN OF IRAN)
According to C.E. Bosworth
“ | The eastern Caucasus came under Saljuq control in the middle years of the 5th/11th century, and in ca. 468/1075-56 Sultan Alp Arslān sent his slave commander ʿEmād-al-dīn Savtigin as governor of Azerbaijan and Arrān, displacing the last Shaddadids. From this period begins the increasing Turkicization of Arrān, under the Saljuqs and then under the line of Eldigüzid or Ildeñizid Atabegs, who had to defend eastern Transcaucasia against the attacks of the resurgent Georgian kings. The influx of Oghuz and other Türkmens was accentuated by the Mongol invasions. Bardaʿa had never revived fully after the Rūs sacking, and is little mentioned in the sources. | ” |
(C.E. Bsowrth, Arran in Encyclopedia Iranica)
According to Fridrik Thordarson:
“ | Iranian influence on Caucasian languages. There is general agreement that Iranian languages predominated in Azerbaijan from the 1st millennium b.c. until the advent of the Turks in a.d. the 11th century (see Menges, pp. 41-42; Camb. Hist. Iran IV, pp. 226-28, and VI, pp. 950-52). The process of Turkicization was essentially complete by the beginning of the 16th century, and today Iranian languages are spoken in only a few scattered settlements in the area. | ” |
(Fridrick Thordarson, “Caucasus and Iran” in Encyclopedia Iranica)
According to W.B. Henning:
“ | It is generally agreed and indeed not subject to serious doubt that before the advent of the Turks, Iranian languages were spoken here in Azerbaijan and Zanjan, as elsewhere in Persia | ” |
(The Ancient Language of Azerbaijan,” TPS, 1954-55.)
There are now clear sources which show the language of the Muslim populations of Caucasus (Arran, Sherwan) and Azerbaijan were Iranian. See Safina-yi Tabriz, Old Azari language and Nozhat al-Majales
Now here is a nice general rule: Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. "The statement that all or most scientists or scholars hold a certain view requires reliable sourcing. Without a reliable source that claims a consensus exists, individual opinions should be identified as those of particular, named sources. Editors should avoid original research especially with regard to making blanket statements based on novel syntheses of disparate material. The reliable source needs to claim there is a consensus, rather than the Wikipedia editor. For example, even if every scholarly reliable source located states that the sky is blue, it would be improper synthesis to write that there is a scientific consensus that the sky is blue, unless sources cited also make such a claim."
So there is a concensus and general agreement here as mentioned by Hennning and Thoradson. Now your view would simply be put in WP:fringe and WP:undo, since there is a general agreement by scholars (as mentioned through secondary sources). So the fringe view and any view opposing the Turkicization of Iranian speaking lands cannot be put in the article. It is simply WP:fringe. It is a violation of Wikipedia rules and the sources you brought is not even written by a historian. You should read these rules to understand that when scholars have a general agreement on something, then you cannot quote fringe views about Turks predating Iranians or other peoples in the region.
So when there is a general agreement, there is absolutely no need to bring WP:fringe views. These are well known Professors of history. As for what you term "Persian racism"(none of these Professors are Persians first of all) that is off-topic and one can state that "Tukish racism" which wiped out the native Persians(most of the Mongol tribes were of Turkic origin) from Azerbaijan, Arran/Sherwan and good part of Central Asia. But that off topic, since none of the real scholars mentioned here is a racist and none of them are from the region to make such an accusation.
Please note again WP:forum and WP:soapbox. Wikipedia works by weight WP:weight and when there is a general agreement on a matter by well known scholars and historians, you are simply violating wikipedia rules by trying to insert fringe opinions. If there are statements from scholars that there is a concensus and agreement that the language of Azerbaijan was Iranian speaking (see Iranian languages if you are unfamiliar with the term) before the advent of Turks, then any other idea is surely WP:fringe and will not be inserted in the main article. Scholars like Minorsky, Frye, Planhol (Geographical historian who has studied nomadism in details), Golden, Bosworth, Perry and etc. are well known Professors with many publications in history and languages. If you have a problem with this, take it to the fringe noticeboard and claim that the Medes, Manneans, Sumerians, Elamites, Parthians and etc. were Turks (like Zehtabi whom Asgharzadeh quotes claims all these and more were Turks including Gutians, Lulubis, Kassites, Caspians) are and it is "Persian racism" to claim they were not! Here is the noticeboard [ [13]]. If they accept your sources that Turks pre-date Iranians in the region (like Mr. Asgharzadeh claims), then I will too. Make sure to say "Persian racism is denying these facts that Medes were Turks" as well. -- Pahlavannariman ( talk) 11:45, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Actually the article in wikipedia refers to an interview with Dr. Ashrafiyan where he states the MtDNA of the people of Iranian Plateau goes back to 10500 [14] and several other points. If you have some reports contradicting this report, then please bring it (since genetics still a science in its infancy). However the concept of "elite dominance" is not madeup by Alborz. Here is another article that supports his claim. [15] " Thus, all of the genetic evidence agrees that the Armenian and Azerbaijanian languages reflect language replacements, which occurred without any detectable genetic contribution of the original Indo-European and Turkic groups, respectively. This may still reflect an “elite dominance” scenario, a presumably the original Indo-European/Turkic migrant groups were very small and/or did not mix exensively with the resident groups. In any event, the migrant groups had a negligible genetic impact on the resident groups.". ( [16]).
Note, all Dr. Bonab is stating is the same for the Iranian plateau [17]. Here is another assessment that agrees with him: [18] "Indeed, the different Iranian populations show a striking degree of homogeneity. This is revealed not only by the nonsignificant FST values and the PC plot (fig. 6) but also by the SAMOVA results, in which a significant genetic barrier separates populations west of Pakistan from those east and north of the Indus Valley (results not shown). These observations suggest either a common origin of modern Iranian populations and/or extensive levels of gene flow amongst them."
And also: “Another important replacement occurred in Turkey at the end of the eleventh century, when Turks began attacking the Byzantine Empire. They finally conqured Constantinopole (modern Istanbul) in 1453. The replacement of Greek with Turkish was especially significant because this language belongs to a different family—Altaic. Again the genetic effects of invasion were modest in Turkey. Their armies had few soldiers and even if they sometimes traveled with their families, the invading populations would be small relative to the subject populations that had along civilization and history of economic development. After many generations of protection by the Roman Empire, however, the old settles had become complacent and lost their ability to resit the dangerous invaders”(Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza , in “Genes, People and Languages”, 2000, pg 152). Maybe Alborz can rewrite that section based on this [ [19]] since fundamentally it states the same thing as the interview with Dr. Bonab [20]-- Pahlavannariman ( talk) 15:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
The fact that the writer of the genetic section tries to use a very well respected journals article to defraud the readers is very well reflected in the article. Not even a word is there in afsharians paper regarding genitic homogenity or the theory of lingual replacement. Dear alborz where dose afsharian in his nature article say such a thing "neighbors have genetic ties , and language and recent immigration are not the main determinant "? The Voa persians report is not a valid resource for citation in wikipedia. The part of "People and Languages" as cited has nothing to do with our discussion. There is not any thing regarding any genetic structure in turky. The last paper you cited alone dose not qualify to proof the genetics section. It is merely a single recent article. A wikipedian page is not a valid source for discussion, as you know. Amir.azeri ( talk) 16:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Oh my god, Amir pleas go back to learn some history. I am a Chinese and our nation has dealt with Turks for centuries. The Turks appeared on Mongolian plateau around 4th century, then Turks defeated other nomad groups and unified the Plateau at the 5th century. Tang dynasty defeated the east Turks in 6th AD and west Turks in 7th century. Turks built two Khanate, the east and the west, as I said they were both defeated by Chinese empire, after that, central asia was captured by the Arabs. Now how come the Turks, who is originated in south Siberian also became an ancient population of Caucasus??? And our books clearly said the Turks right that time had "mongoloid" appearance, now look at the Azeri people, do they have this "Mongoloid" physical appearance? If not, where were that appearance come from?? I doubt you can understand the books written by the ancient Chinese historian. And others already gave you enough brilliant books, read the books above and stop lying to yourself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.73.78.62 ( talk) 06:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
This picture must be used only in the article of Azerbaijan. The term of Azerbaijani means both a ethnic group named Azeris (Azerbaijani Turks) and citizens of Republic of Azerbaijan.In this article is ralated Azeris not citizens of Azerbaijan. Our fiends of Azerbaijani Turks said that she must be Lezgin and its impossible to be Turk. Now nobody can prove that she is Turk or not, Lezgi or not. In wikipedia (of course in other encyclopedias) Wikipedia:Verifiability is very important. Thank you. Takabeg ( talk) 10:56, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
The author is not Azerbaijani. I'm not Azerbaijani Turk. But many Azerbaijani Turks think her Lezgins. We cannot neglect their knowleges. If here were a forum or blog, maybe we can use this picture for the article of Azerbaijani Turk. But here is an encyclopedia. Takabeg ( talk) 18:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 20:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
I partially agree with Grandmaster . An encyclopaedia needs a source and not roumors. But if there is a doubt about the relevancy of a file, the issue can be discussed and the the author can be consulted. Unfortunatelly the author in this case, has been disabled to talk in en-Wikipedia and is silent in Commons. So we are unsure if this fair complexion girl is an Azerbaijani or Lezgian. Maybe it is best to change the caption of the file as A Girl in Khacmaz (either Lezgian or Azerbaijani). Nedim Ardoğa ( talk) 06:01, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Parishan that someone saying something about something doesn't make it true but I also have to agree with Takabeg, Azerbaijani Turk or not, I'd like to see it being verifiable. The words of the author doesn't necessarily proves the argument. What is preventing me being an author of a picture of a Rabbi and saying that he is a Mormon? Regards. -- Iggydarsa ( talk) 16:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Is Fuzûlî Azerbaijani Turk ? There is no room for debate about his influence to Azerbaijani language and literature. But he belonged to the Bayat tribe (one of the Oguz tribes). Takabeg ( talk) 11:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
That's not what the original source claims..., and sources claims (including Britannica of the time), that the term Tatar was not only applied to refer to the Turkic speaking Muslim people. going directly from A to C is original research and should not be accepted. I am sure that there are other sources which are more acceptable. Ionidasz ( talk) 15:53, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Ethnologue has updated its numbers. While previously claiming that Azeri is spoken by 23m people in Iran, it has reduced the number to (more realistic) 11m. That should also be updated in the article. Tajik ( talk) 23:35, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
Can someone could please do collage of famous Azerbaijani people's photos? It's finally time to update our nation's picture over some random picture of girls-- NovaSkola ( talk) 01:59, 1 August 2010 (UTC)