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Look, I am not a wikipedian, and I don't have an account (or an agenda, for that matter) but this is the most ridiculous article I have encountered on wikipedia in all the sleepless nights of procrastination I have spent on this site. I came upon this article after seeing it referred to in a NPOV statement in the Hero film article. Though I thought I caught a whiff of bullshit, I was in no way prepared for the blog entry that is this stinking heap of crud. As such, I nominate this article for deletion- if at all possible. If not, tell me how to make it possible. Do I need an account? Consensus? How would I go about getting consensus? This level of unsourced preachy nonsense is simply too much for me to just shrug off as the expected degredation of this website.
Allow me to highlight some particularly gross violations of academic tone. First of all, the opening paragraph; at least it is upfront in presenting itself as a leftist diatribe rather than an encyclopedic article.
Did they? Source.
Is that why? Source.
Is it? Source.
Ah thank you sensei. Why then, may I ask, is there an article on them in Wikipedia? To teach people that they don't exist? Or that those who invoke them are wrong? Wikipedia isn't supposed to teach us what is right- it is supposed to document things of encyclopedic relevance.
Tricky though, because like this article, the latter is also a vague, unsourced critique of an ill-defined social standpoint. Now for the definition section:
Do they? Who are these proponents? Source.
Does it? Source.
This is cute; 'tend'. Whoever wrote that wasn't even trying.
Oh, is that a frequent criticism? Let me guess, 'some' argue that point?
What an awesome list you pulled out of your arse.
I could go on. The political significance section is better than the rest, and if gods of wikipedia deem that 'asian values' is a real and noteworthy topic (as opposed to the extant articles on say, confucianism), then this should probably be the extent of the article.
This kind of crap has no place on wikipedia. Do something about it, or maybe- just maybe- I will. 60.242.88.203 ( talk) 19:07, 30 September 2010 (UTC) (Some random from the internet)
>> If you wish to improve Wikipedia, please begin by being more respectful and mature yourself. Logical suggestions/arguments written in a polite/neutral tone would actually be helpful. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.82.154 ( talk) 05:09, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Mihnea, your version is:
My version is:
I don't think that your version quite accurately describes the situation. While some Western European states might be more "welfare states" than the East Asian ones, in many ways, the East Asian states were more "welfare states" than the United States. Besides, all the states—Western European, American, and East Asian—all practiced free-market capitalism.
— Lowellian ( talk)[[]] 22:24, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)
This article was obviously written by someone with pro-Western tendencies. The links in particular do not incoperate any references to pro-Asian value writers, but everything for the anti-Asian value ones. I suggest a major revamping of this article.
If you have a basis for those allegations, cite them please. I for one do not know of any Asian philosophy that specifically advocates them. I believe you mixed up the words practices with the word values, with the latter differing from the former in the sense that it has a clear-cut source with specific endorsement. Most of those 'values' you assert are nowhere confined to Asia alone, in fact, they are quite universal. It does not take a genius to figure this out and any attempt to claim otherwise by libelling a specific culture as being responsible merely casts the perpetrator as a narrow minded, racist bigot him/herself. I am not surprised you did this as it tends to be quite fashionable to do so where you are from.
Where I am from, racism is illegal. In places like Malaysia, it's incorporated into the constitution. Aside from racism, I don't think those other things are specifically advocated, simply widespread. -- Commking 23:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
So where does the Philippines stand when it comes to "asian values"? I am inclined to believe that it never really took hold in the country because of the development of western style democracy(you can say that it was heavilly manipulated by the USA) in the early 20th century. This should be added, but I'm not gonna do it since this is just speculation on my part and needs references. I just wanted to have the country at least mentioned since it is arguably an exceptional asian country when it comes to "asian value".-- Chicbicyclist 07:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Almost every country within Asia has been significantly affected by nationalism. It would be interesting to think about/focus more on how it is that this links into Asian values. I believe that this also has a very deep and meaningful interconnection with the position of women within such societies (either as moral arbitrators, as well as things as obvious as socially acccepted dress codes and the like). Perhaps a few (measured!) comments based upon the importance of ethnicity within Asian would be instructive.
Can there be a synthesis between the two; western and asian systems of thought (or set of values)?
I would say so as a christian atleast; love your neigbour as you love yourself, it´s an unproven proposeall that there has to to be a clash here between the loyalness to society and the freedom of the individual (and the respect for others integrity) - a freedom with respect and with a sense of responsibility for the whole of society. But this is just empty words - without the ability to bring real love with to other persons (witch I belive drove surtain philosophers to the Asian thought) - but i personally believe that this pure love only can come from God - agape. This agape could however "contamine" us if we pursue a relationship with him.
Just some proverbs here to get you goin':
(Below are my own transelation from a Swedish bible version)
Proverbs (book in the Bible); chapter 28; vers 18:
Without vision (and revalation) the people perissh, delighted - is the one keeping the law. (it's from my memory of the english version of the verse)
[The law is - Gods commands thus both the right thing to do and the loveing thing to do. Respecting integrity - but being uncontent with how the world's caotic and the ofthen unloveing way of the people around us - and to forget the most important thing: DOING THE RIGHT THING YOURSELF (ask God for help - otherwise it atleast impossible for me to motivate myself - it's just not in me. (as said before: the problem is that we people needs gods help with doing the right thing; we just don't have the right amount of motivation; point is all seems to screw it up eventionally - thats why we need help.
Proverbs (book in the Bible); chapter 28; vers 5
Ungodly men can't find out whats the right thing to do, whilst the one that seeks the Lord has insight in everything.
My point with quoteing this is just "pin point that:
The One's that has thinked things out; knows all; created everything; ought to know what the right move is to make; an ought to be able to motivate you; as he has no limits being the source of everything's - being boundless as he seems to bee. (I've personally experienced that, try it out yourself - just asking for help couldn't hurt. So try it out.)
Where Is The Love? by Black Eyed Peas
Album :Elephunk (2003)
People killin', people dyin'
Children hurt and you hear them cryin'
Can you practice what you preach
And would you turn the other cheek
Father, Father, Father help us Send some guidance from above 'Cause people got me, got me questionin' Where is the love (Love)
Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love The love, the love
-- Sweden 12:10, 09 September 2006 (UTC)
Any relation to Juche? -- IanOsgood 22:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Article currently has unsourced assertions, weasel statements, and some editorializing. Wikipedia:Citing sources, Wikipedia:Weasel, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style -- 201.51.252.63 19:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
This is in reference to the statement that Asian Values are not uniquely asian. These asian values are actualy quite an artificial construct. Refer to Ang and Stratton's Straddling East and West: Singapore's search for a National Identity Creating something as essentialy east or west is part of a process of othering which basically means smearing others with negative qualities that are opposite to the ones that we valorise. One could refer to the Amartya sen article linked to on the page for an elaboration
I tried to clean up this article, but it's hopeless given its current structure. The introductory paragraph needs to clarify the larger concept of values common to Asia (especially east Asia), and then go on to describe how the concept has been used in a narrower context of poilitics in some Asian countries. The article needs a rewrite with references, by someone who can be objective. Another plus would be to describe these two meanings of "Asian values" and later have a separate "Criticism" section (rather than all the snide comments and sniping throughout the article). - Exucmember 20:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
The two references are what appear to be a random web page about latin America and a movie review? Why hasn't this page been tagged for deletion? Warren Dew ( talk) 05:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Who Are more creative, Asians or Westerners ? Can Asians create new values ?
Any one out there ready to participate on writing on "Asian Values in Economy" rather than this essay on Politics ? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ken h to ( talk • contribs) 14:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Would this also be able to justify child beating as a punishment, a concept foreign to westerners today? ("Foreign" example: It is illegal to punish a child by smacking in Australia, with a possible jail term or fine and/or counseling.) -- 李博杰 | — Talk contribs 03:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
More Eurocentric bullshit trying to undermine the ideals of other cultures. The reasoning behind said deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.22.208.240 ( talk) 18:40, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
I believe it is incorrect to use the word "Confucianism" in the definition of Asian values and that it should be removed. Firstly, Lee Kuan yew is believed to be the architect behind Asian values he's the first one to promote the idea and subsequently became popular in other parts of Asia like Malaysia and China. In Lee Kuan Yew's definition of Asian values he does not state anywhere anything about Confucianism. This source that I have included features his definition of Asian values, it is a quote directly said by him in the 1970s. [ [1]] What does everyone else think? ( 110.149.151.169 ( talk) 23:55, 21 July 2016 (UTC)) @ Lemongirl942: I opened a discussion you can leave your view if you want, I can't edit your talk page so I had to post here, you can remove this after you've written a message
References
The cultural source of ‘Asian values’ is most commonly Confucianism. It is important to note, however, that the Confucianism referred to here is not the original set of ethics advocated by Confucius, but rather the state centred form developed from the second century BC onwards. If you look at the other sources in the article they mention Confucianism as an important influence on Asian values. In fact, the neutral term Asian values was preferred in Singapore (over the term Confucianism) because of its multiracial population and race relations. You can look at some of these highly cited works [2], [3], [4], [5] for how Asian values is related to Confucianism. -- Lemongirl942 ( talk) 01:23, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
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In earlier versions of the article, Lung Ying-tai, a social and political critic from Taiwan and Lee Teng-hui, a former President of Taiwan, were quoted for the criticism. However, the cited article "Is Culture Destiny? The Myths of Asia's Anti-Democratic Values" does not seem to support this claim. They might very well made such criticism, but I couldn't find a source to cite. So I removed their names for now, but if any of you can find a source, you are welcome to put their names back, with the new source, of course.
Instead, I found that these opinions were expressed by Amartya Kumar Sen and Yu Ying-shih. So I put their names next to the comments instead and add new citations. On a second thought, I will also restore the original citation and put the author's name next to the comments as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuono20 ( talk • contribs) 07:34, 26 March 2020 (UTC)