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Hello Wikipedians, I am trying to find and add sourcing to a couple of pre-existing entries on this article, and update the descriptions to reference the materials. Is referencing museums / gallery collections viable for this purpose? I am having trouble finding journals covering the specific Manifestos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enaud.98 ( talk • contribs) 00:40, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
I came here to delete references pointing to the non-notable term Neo-Gothism, and was rather shocked to see quite a few other "Manifestos", which seem to have no evidence of notability, and appear to be nothing more than someone posting on a webpage (e.g., "Tom 7" and his "Crap Art manifesto"!) Is anyone against me deleting these? Maybe we could have some of them as external links, at best. Mdwh 22:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, I would be happy to hear any of your ideas on the subject.
Tyrenius 06:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Material on the web can be used to verify its own existence, but not necessarily anything beyond that. If we are examining what material is currently on the web and something on the web is a joke manifesto, than it is a fact to say that that is the case. To say anything beyond that would not be verifiable unless there were other sources to say so. I've put in another qualification to try to point this out. A recurrent theme in contemporary art anyway is the "joke" that then gets taken seriously, so that aspect has to be taken in context with current practice, and I don't see it as a particular concern in itself. Tyrenius 14:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
That's a misunderstanding of notability. The notability is in the article subject, namely "Art manifesto". It doesn't then mean that everything within that article has to be notable. In the same way a biography of a person gets space if that individual is considered notable for some reason, but the article will include lots of details about that person's life which in themselves are not at all notable. That's not to say I think this article as it now stands is perfect, because I don't think that. However, I think we have to find the right criteria to be able to sort out what to do with it. Tyrenius 04:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Notability is an essay, not even a guideline, and, although it is often used, of course, and is often relevant, there may be other valid considerations in different circumstances. You say "people would get away with including all sorts of stuff", but this is not a consideration here, as it was not the authors who added the material you've mentioned (although it looks as though there may have been something since that qualifies). It is not indiscrimate information, as it is directly applicable to the subject, which we have agreed is valid. List of computer viruses (A-D) includes viruses that may not have notability in their own right, but are included to make a comprehensive article. This article is not "a collection of non-notable webpages"; it merely happens to mention some non-notable webpages as part of it, which is an entirely different matter.
I have added the quote which describes the effect of the web on art manifestos. It seemed to me that anyone reading this and following the historical evolution of the manifestos would be interested in what type of manifestos were being put on the web and to see their relationship in form and content with previous (pre-internet) manifestos. Thus a representative sample are described. Does this not seem reasonable? Any argument about the inclusion of these has to be taken in context with the whole article. If you still feel it is wrong, perhaps you could outline what changes you think need to be made. Arguments about non-notability might also apply to certain manifestos in the early sections as well, just to complicate matters.
Tyrenius 05:46, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't think there is any reason to limit the topic of "art manifestos" to the 20th century. Someone looking for a reference to the works of John Ruskin or the preface to Leaves of Grass, for example, is going to be pretty surprised that these documents are not considered. These authors definitely composed great and influential art manifestos, whether or not the term had political currency in their day. Chairease ( talk) 21:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 March 2023 and 28 April 2023. Further details are available
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