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That's correct, that ATF statement was exposed quite awhile as being misleading and inaccurate. Feel free to remove it.
ROG5728 (
talk)
21:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Boka Star
I'm concerned about
this edit. It looks like POV-pushing. Multiple sources describe the
Boka Star incident as trafficking, and this article is desperately short of real examples. Why on earth would anybody remove it from the see-also, other than whitewashing?
bobrayner (
talk)
16:43, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
And why do you think it is actually worthy to mention it here in the first place? It is by far minor situation, and we have a lot more different and more important incidents than this one. Why on earth would anybody add it in the see-also, other than awful POV pushing, and in order to feed anti-Yugoslav propaganda on wiki? I added some known and specific cases, instead on this poor one. If you created that article, that does not mean that everybody must see it. If you do not agree, and still want to push it on this page, although it is minor and non specific, we should start dispute resolution then. --WhiteWriterspeaks17:27, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Yes, there are other incidents. I added other incidents. You then rearranged the list... and
cut out Boka Star again. Why whitewash this incident in particular? It seems impossible to write neutral content which touches on the Balkans in any way...
bobrayner (
talk)
17:42, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
With your multiple addition to several pages, you only failed with your "neutral" agenda. Again, the question. I hope that you WILL respond to my question some day. Why do you think that this case is worthy to mention in all those articles? P.S. I am totally for 30, will raise it. New editors will only help... --WhiteWriterspeaks17:53, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
They will be trilled to see that you quickly tried to PUSH your article despite editor expressed an concern that it is a bed example. So, instead in compromise, you went into edit warring and POV pushing. If you dont want to be hit by BOOMERANG, it would be better for you just to stick to 30, and normal dispute resolution process. --WhiteWriterspeaks17:56, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
An
uninvolved editor pointed out that Boka Star was orphaned. I noticed that other similar articles had a similar problem, and I fixed it. Strangely, you seem happy for lots of these articles to link to each other... apart from Boka Star, you systematically remove any links to that one. You're in a hole; stop digging, and take your hand off the revert button.
bobrayner (
talk)
17:57, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
No, other articles with relevant and useful content are good to use. Unfortunately, only this one is small stub. P.S. You are actually not allowed to delete my comment below. --WhiteWriterspeaks18:10, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
I already requested a third opinion.
This new section, with a malformed template and a deceptive attempt at framing the debate, is a really bad move. I removed it for your own sake - such bungling would reflect badly on any editor. If you really want to add a slightly less broken version, meh, that's up to you...
bobrayner (
talk)
18:11, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
OK, one more cite for you then..
The links in the 'See also' section should be relevant, should reflect the links that would be present in a comprehensive article on the topic, and should be limited to a reasonable number.
Should an article
Boka Star be added to multiple related See also sections, despite the fact that other editor disputes its importance and significance?
User created
Boka Star, and added it here, in already filled See also. I removed it as non notable example, not worthy of a see also. In respond, user quickly pushed it on several other articles, with several other examples. So, help would be useful in this: Should this article be "featured" in several other articles, despite being a stub, or we should add some other relevant examples? I propose to see which articles should be added as examples of arms trafficking. This poor one is not example, in my opinion... --WhiteWriterspeaks18:03, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
I didnt know that {{3O}} was deleted. System changed a bit. We always created a new section with a summary of problem for a template before. You are very welcomed to add your own POV to this situation. That is the point of 3O. Only than we will be able to gain a consensus on subject. What exactly is deceptive in my description? --WhiteWriterspeaks18:16, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
3O Response: A reasonable number of see also links is allowed. Adding one vessel, links for various individual craft, airplanes, airlines, etc. involved in smuggling is the
camel's nose under the tent. Omit. –
S. Rich (
talk)
18:45, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks very much for your response!
However, I have a concern. Both editors concerned seem to be OK with having a list of similar length; but for some reason links to Boka Star are systematically removed from the lists and replaced with something - anything - else.
[1][2][3]. Do you feel that there is any particular reason why Boka Star must be removed from the see-also list and other ships added in its place?
bobrayner (
talk)
21:32, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm saying remove the Star. Do not add any vessels. Indeed, putting in the nKorean ship found at Panama is problematic as it had missiles that did not fit the definition of "arms" as per the article. Moreover, it was probably a nation to nation exchange, making it a legitimate deal as opposed to "trafficking". If we are stringent about the SAs, we will avoid fights were everyone wants to put in their favorite incident. –
S. Rich (
talk)
01:48, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Srich, i have removed it. That would be it if you ask me. Exactly that was ma point also. "Favorite incidents" must not be added. --WhiteWriterspeaks12:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Bob. I wouldn't mind getting feedback from some other editors. If you don't mind sharing, in what ways do you see them as distinct topics?
Lightbreather (
talk)
22:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Support. I don't see a good reason to have separate articles for legal arms trade and illegal arms trade. They involve many of the same issues. The guns come from the same companies either way.
Felsic (
talk)
16:03, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Oppose: Trafficking means to "deal or trade in something illegal", while "small arms" simply refers to the size/type of the weapons. Incorporating the parts of this article about illegal trade to
Arms trafficking, and shifting the legal parts to
Arms industry may be a good alternative to this proposal. —
Godsy(
TALKCONT)05:39, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I second Godsy's suggestion and echo Faceless Enemy's point: a more meaningful distinction than size of weapons is whether the transactions are illegal (i.e., trafficking) or legal.
Froid (
talk)
13:30, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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The following is what is currently in the lead for Arms Trafficking:
Arms trafficking, also known as gunrunning, is the trafficking of contraband
weapons and
ammunition. What constitutes legal trade in firearms varies widely, depending on local and national laws.
Arms trafficking, also known as gunrunning, is broadly defined as the illicit trade of contraband
small arms and
ammunition, which constitutes part of a broad range of illegal activities often associated with transnational
criminal organizations. The illegal trade of small arms, unlike other organized crime commodities, is more closely associated with exercising power in communities instead of achieving economic gain.[2] Scholars estimate illegal arms transactions amount to over US$1 billion annually.[3]
To keep track of imports and exports of several of the most dangerous
armament categories, the
United Nations, in 1991, created a Register for Conventional Arms, however participation is not compulsory and lacks comprehensive data in regions outside of Europe.[4][3] Africa, due to a prevalence of corrupt officials and loosely enforced trade regulations, is a region with extensive illicit arms activity.[5] In a resolution to complement the Register with legally binding obligations, a Firearms Protocol was incorporated into the UN Convention on Transnational Organized Crime, which requires states to improve systems that control trafficked ammunition and firearms.[3]
In the international criminal scholarly community,
rational choice theory is commonly referenced in explanations as to why individuals engage in and justify criminal activity.[6] According to Jana Arsovska and Panos Kostakos, leading scholars on
organized crime, the causes of arms trafficking are not solely based on rational choice theory but rather have been more closely linked to the intimacy of one's personal social networks as well as the "perception of risks, effort and rewards in violating criminal laws."[2]
US Navy Fire Controlman 3rd Class Matthew Burger returns to the USS Dewey during a visit, board, search, and seizure (VBSS) operation
The 1999 Report...
Europe
(start of new section in wikipedia page, going between 1.2 Africa and 1.3 Market Value)
Since 1996, firearms trafficking has become an issue that countries throughout Europe have taken notice of to decrease and prevent from growing. Europe has been an overall large exporter of illicit weapons having the UK, Germany, and France in the national lead for the most exports. Imports to Europe in from 2004-2013 have decreased by 25%, with the UK importing the most overall in Europe.[7] The firearms that are imported and passed around are commonly
small arms and lighter weapons (
SALW) compared to large machinery, such as
tanks and
aircrafts.[8] The SALW bought in Europe tends to be second hand weapons that are cheap and regularly available. Gun cultures, such as in Germany, increase illicit SALW because guns are viewed as a way to enhance masculinity and status. In 2000, the
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) started on regional solutions and security measures to address the firearms trafficking problem. [8]
Market Value
Due to a lack of legal transparency, estimating the
market value of the arms trafficking industry is sometimes difficult. In 2001 alone, the value of legal
Small Arms and Light Weapons exports was US$2.4 Billion. After being processed by
customs, that number increases to somewhere between US$5-7 Billion, according to
Small Arms and Light Weapons (1994-2001).[9] An additional 10-20% (US$1 Billion) are suspected to be added to that number from
black market transactions.[10] The
Kalashnikov AK-47 is the most appealing weapon to the illegal weapons trade, due to its low cost. With a surplus of
AK-47s flooding the market from post-cold war armies, the prices of this firearm sunk as low as US$15 in 2000.[10] Trends have shown that the price of the
AK-47 have stayed constant in countries with current
civil wars, while stable countries prices for the
AK-47 have been on the rise. Even biker gangs have gotten in on profitable arms trafficking.
Law enforcement agencies started investigating
bike gangs in the late 90s, and started classifying them as organized criminal organizations. This was mainly due to the fact that they were able to control of the prostitution market, and the smuggling of stolen goods—weapons, motorcycles, and car parts.[11]
^Arsovska, Jana. "Introduction: Illicit Firearms Market in Europe and Beyond."European Journal on Criminal Policy and Research, vol. 20, no. 3, 2014, pp. 295-305. ProQuest, doi:10.1007/s10610-014-9254-6.
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 March 2019 and 29 April 2019. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Rapidrider,
Casey518,
Oliviaohearn.