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User:Roguegeek escalated the dispute tag from "POV Check" to "TotallyDisputed". The text of the "TotallyDisputed" tag instructs us to turn to the Talk page for an explanation. Roguegeek, I sympathise with your tag; I hate the group this article is about too. But unless you explain your complaint, nothing good can happen.
ACW20:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)reply
Whoa whoa whoa. I put it there because there are items in the article that need sources and show definite POV problems. NOT because I hate the people in the group. Not sure where you got that info from, but you're absolutely wrong in your assertion. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time I thought I might have had when I originally posted it and don't have the time now to explain. I'll do it later at another time and until then, I'll remove the "TotallyDisputed" tag. I'm also not going to put the "POV Check" back since no one has decided to explain why it's there (including
User:KurtRaschke who originally put it there). If you have a dispute, place a tag and explain it here.
Roguegeek23:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)reply
OK. I apologize for any unwarranted attribution of opinions to
Roguegeek, though I stand by my feeling that any POV Check or Dispute tags should be accompanied by some sort of note on the relevant talk page. Of course, the best-laid plans gang aft agley, and I appreciate that one doesn't always have the time to do what one intends. Anyway, all of this discussion is mooted by
User:MastCell's rewrite, which at a first glance looks pretty good to me.
ACW21:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Whether or not I believe in this foundations cause or not really doesn't matter here. The truth is I don't know enough about the subject to make to make any statements right now. My original concerns came from the POV and unreferenced statements. Ultimately, info needs to be NPOV and be well referenced. In an attempt to be a good
Wikipedian, all I care about is making sure these things are in place in any article I have interest in.
Roguegeek02:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)reply
I think this article is totally misleading and dangerous. The point with Chron's Disease is wrong as I know from my own familiy. However, I do not think that I have the expertise to take up the debatte on the issues presented here. Someone who can should give it try.
--
Philiboy11:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)reply
I like it. I'll like it even more when Roguegeek and Philiboy check in and say they like it. But this looks much more encyclopedic and level-headed now. I only worry that somebody inclined to the HIV-skeptic side might find it slanted in the other way, but I can't judge that; such people should step forward and express an opinion here on the talk page.
ACW21:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Very informative with no POV or reference problems. Touches on all of the major aspects of the organization. I like the way it turned out a lot! On a personal note, I'm going to study and follow your contributioins
MastCell simply because you seem to be a great editor for the Wikipedia community, something I'm striving towards myself.
Roguegeek02:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Excellent. I agree completely. And I repeat my apology to Roguegeek for having digressed into unwarranted (and irrelevant) speculations about eir personal opinions. And I second Roguegeek's praise of MastCell's fine workmanship here.
ACW15:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)reply
Seeing as this is a most controversial topic -- very much alike the
Holocaust denial issue -- this article is very much on topic, neutral and "encyclopedic". By the by; on a personal note, I'd like to see these people (as well as the Holocaust deniers) slowly roast on an open fire for all eternity. But then again that's just me. --
Tirolion17:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)reply
To me the "in spite of extensive scientific evidence to the contrary" line is a huge red flag. It's unnecessary and completely inflammatory because one of the chief arguments of Alive & Well is that there isn't in fact extensive evidence behind the "mainstream" theory of AIDS. A better way of wording it would be to note that weight of opinion within the AIDS research community is solidly opposed to Alive & Well. But the way it is worded now seems highly prejudicial because it implies the mainstream research community is right. I don't necessarily buy in to everything Alive & Well is saying, but if you want a proven track record of failure and ridiculous, laughably wrong predictions, look no further than the mainstream AIDS research community. These are the same people who 20 years ago claimed that the weight of scientific evidence suggested AIDS would crossover in to the heterosexual community and become a epidemic.
Bogan444 (
talk)
14:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)reply
That prediction was actually correct, particularly in areas like Sub-Saharan Africa where the epidemic is primarily heterosexually transmitted. A "proven track record of failure" is ridiculous. AIDS was a completely new and deadly syndrome in the early 1980's. Medical research identified its cause, developed reliable means of testing and prevention, and produced highly effective treatments which have transformed the disease, in many cases, from a death sentence to a chronic ailment. All of this was accomplished in the face of an entirely new and previously barely described form of pathogen, the retrovirus, and it all happened in about 15 years. I'm not sure what "success" would look like to you, but I suspect your criteria are highly unrealistic. MastCellTalk21:42, 23 June 2008 (UTC)reply
Neutrality
Article needs some on neutrality it contains some implications of value and unqualified opinions. I have removed some. --neon whitetalk23:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
It's not an "implication of value" or "unqualified opinion" to say that HIV causes AIDS, just as it's not an opinion or value judgment to say that the Earth is round(ish), humans landed on the moon, or the Holocaust actually happened. I'm not sure you're grasping the difference between "bias" and "neutrality" as defined by
WP:NPOV. It would actually be biased and non-neutral to pretend that AIDS denialism is anything but wholly discredited. Whether the wording can be improved is certainly debatable, but casting this, as you have, as a matter of "neutrality" is mistaken. MastCellTalk23:44, 26 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Maybe not but it certianly doesnt belong in this particular sectionit has nothing to do with the section in question and is badly sourced (one broken link and another is unclear what it is citing) and incredibly
weaselly. It is clearly there as a discreditation which is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. The use of the phrase 'In spite of' is particularly telling here. It's essentialy starting the section with 'They are wrong but this is what they believe'. It is certainly a neutrality issue as it is implying wrongness. It needs to go in a seperate 'criticism' section rather than being used to discredit a particular viewpoint as it is now and needs to be attributed and qualified. We should be simply stating differing views in a neutral manner. This is how articles should be written according to policy. We need to be asking questions like. Who refutes this orgs beliefs? What evidence do they use to do so? Rather than just a 'science says they are wrong' as if 'science' was a magical reliable source. --neon whitetalk07:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)reply
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