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There definitely needs to be a Teenagers (disambiguation page. There are four lines of specified redirection on this page already without mentioning the classic doo wop band "The Teenagers" and now the newly formed indie rock band "The Teenagers" which is all over the blogosphere and will soon warrant a page. see [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.226.60.191 ( talk) 17:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
This section does not seem to conform at all to NPOV; the sweeping generalizations and lack of citations are all of great concern. I agree with 202.2.32.27 that the input of an expert is necessary here; unfortunately, the corresponding section in Adolescent psychology has the same problem. I've put neutrality tags on both of them - anyone else think these need to be rewritten? Abigali 08:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes... i do, i removed a chunk of the most biased info including the part on teenagers 'emotional insecurity' and the unproven parts of teen sexuality and teen sexual behaviour. I put in a few statistics from a January 2005, centers for disease control study on teen sex that at least has some data, although info on foreign policy, data, statistics on teen sexual behaviour is widely varied. (I especially found the part which said 'teens usually have sex or make sexual contact out of a 'hook up' was quite.... shall we just say. DOWNRIGHT WRONG! PUT IN SOME DMAN EVIDENCE DAMNIT!!!!.
Although this section still needs A LOT OF EDITING!.
http://www.history-of-rock.com/teenagers.htm
Is a link on the references and when i visited it i found HIGHLY BIASED completely unbacked opininated information. When i tried to find this link to the offending page I couldn't find it in the edit code where it was supposed to be. Although it still shows up on the page and is an active link, if someone could help with locating the link and removing it that would be much appreciated.
Chinks of Garbage cleaned and the whole summarization rewritten in the Psychology section of Adoloscence, also cited all resources to statements. I hope its all good now Correctus 16:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
The secion on adolescent psychology should summarise that article and present a global (not US centric) perspective. An article on adolescent sexuality, again with a global perspective may be justified, there is already an article on teen pregnancy. Paul foord 07:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
damnit.... could someone PLEASE EXPLAIN why they restored the text i deleted IWTHOUT CITING A GOOD REASON?. It was entirely backe4d up, the websites listed as reference are of a right wing nature and themselves contain unproven facts, and the centers for disease control data. WHICH IS LEGIT AND I POSTED WITH A LINK! HAS BEEN DELETED.
I'm restoring the CDC data and deleting the text until someone comes up with viable information, please note iwill also try and contact an admin to put protection on this article. 66.212.201.26 20:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
also.... if there should be a seperate article on teen sexuality WHY IS THERE AN ENTIRE MINI ARTICLE ON IT WHICH. I JUST CLAIMED WAS NON NEUTRAL AND FALSE???!!!
Deleted biased information.. again!, highly request protection ASAP. Leonard sax's info is highly biased and weakly backed up. The KFF/CDC info i put in was replaced with older outdated info which contributes even more to the biased and unscientifically proven materials that seems to be hypocritical of the articles own words....
The links are also FILLED with antisexual information that would not be helpful to a parent or teenager looking for a good reference on teenaged sexuality.
If a seperate article is to be then i think it'll need discussion as there is too much trolling the info to fit into particular relegious political ideologies.
Nateland 21:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
What ocncerns me the most is how the article says that teenagers are incapable of dealing with the emotions etc. that come with sex, how it does far more harm then good, and how it says teenaged sexual relations are usually hook-ups*.
*how do you define hook-ups? * has there been a reasonable study proving this? *has leanoard sax EVER gotten the opinions of teenagers themselves?
I myself havn't been able to find any of his books, although Judith Levine's book, harmful to minors: the perils of protecting children from sex will tell you exactly the opposite.
Plus, CDC data stating STD rates are now at 88 per 1,000 HARDLY seems to be an 'epidemic', except in the hispanic and african ethnicities where it tends to be a little bit higher. If you can i'd like to see some studies to back up the above points WHICH are preferably not from Sax, if they are then PLEASE give me the source of the study....
(note that the CDC study link had been removed and i'd like it to be reinserted, also. I'm going to move the CDC data up towards the top of adolescent sexuality/psychology because of the multitudes of data saying sex between teenagers is dangerous.
This should help to balance it out in case some parent reads it and doesn't even get to the bottom having decided (MY daughter can't have sex!!, this data says she'll become depressed!!!) I'd prefer the links to studies proving the depression as well.
PLUS we need a world view and studies from at least more countries then the United states, as this presents a problem to people visiting this page who are from other but english speaking countries.
I'll also try and find some data on european views on adolescent seuxal activity (I have some and can get some more), and i must say the house-of-rock page is itself heavily biased and deriving the origin of the term 'teenager' might seem, upon close inspection.... a bit unreliable.
P.S. sry for the shouting, but I really DO consider this information to be biased and completely un-nuetral as well as opinionated.
Nateland 22:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
P.S.S.
I would REALLY appreciate it if more sources backing up the claims of harm done to teenagers from sex/ intoxication causing it/reducing embarrasment could be provided 'hopefully' in internet form that are seperate from Leonard sax's theories as a LARGE amount of ther references are from Leonard Sax and it would be gratefully acknowledged if you could come up with more sources to back up Sax's claims due to his ideas and facts filling up a lot of the topic of teen sexuality.
Oh yes... I'm wondering about a seperate wikipedia article SPECIFICALLY for teen sexuality and activity/behaviour due to the fact that it is a bit long and if info about other countries are included the length might be increased DRAMATICALLY.
Thus warranting another article based solely on this.
Nateland 23:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
The entire section is poorly sourced and highly subjective. It is obviously biased because any intro Psychology text will tell you that this teenage crisis thing is not known in many parts of the world, so many of the problems discussed in the passages can be debatable.
However, we must have a civil debate. It's best to avoid sweeping generalizations, and to cite every controversial statement you make. Let's start doing that. Xiner ( talk, email) 02:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
The sections on "Psychology of adolescents" and "Adolescent sexuality" consist mostly of biased commentary, and mainly pertain to the United States. Many of the statements seem to be supported by an appeal to authority rather than actual data. Moreover, many of the citations do not provide links to easily-accessible peer-reviewed studies which can be scrutinized for accuracy.
I think it would be best to scrap most of these sections and stick with objective quantitative data that can be verified in a peer-reviewed journal. -- Uthbrian ( talk) 11:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I hope this can be used as a temporary replacement for the section on teen sexuality due to it's easily verifiable and trustworthy nature. (The Centers For Disease Control are pretty reliable in my opinion and many others) Plus it's layout would EASILY allow for inclusion of information on adolescent sexual activity and sexuality in other countries.. oh yes i'm thinking. Could someone come up with some internet sources to show that adolescents have as diverse sexual orientations as adults?, that would be a given and add some more info other then statistics on pregnancy and STD transmission.
I myself KNOW that teenagers (I myself am a teenager, a little over 14) have varied orientations both homo, heterosexual, and paraphilic, but do ont know of many good studies or surveys to prove this point which aren't under hot debate.
below is my idea of a good temporary replacement, i've also contacted an admin a few days ago to see if they can help out in this matter. 9Not sure if they'll get back to me though)
http://www.cdc.gov/STD/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm
http://www.ashastd.org/hpv/hpv_learn_myths.cfm
While a highly controversial topic, both sides of the issue for and against this activity have been fighting fiercely to prove their points on both relegious, secular, scientific, and statistical grounds.
This section deals with....
Adolescent Sexual Activity In The United States
Research (Shown in the paragraph below) HAS proven In The United States however that pregnancy and std transmission in sexually active teens has gone down dramatically over the past 10 years, both of which have been leading secular reasons for stopping adolescent sexual activity (For pregnancy this is vaginal intercourse and for STD's like HIV it is anal, oral, or vaginal sex that counts towards the statistics, other STD's like syphillis etc. are available at the reference page)
Centers For Disease Control study On Rates For STD, and Pregnancy in United States teens
Of US teens aged 15-19 who are having sexual intercourse almost all (98%) use at least one form of contraception. The most popular form, at 94% usage, are condoms and the birth control pill at 61%. [4]
U.S. teen pregnancies had decreased 28% between 1990 and 200 from 117 pregnancies of every 1,000 to 84 per 1,000 by the year 2,000.[5]
Plase note however that WORLDWIDE: "Genital HPV infection is a sexually transmitted disease (STD) that is caused by human papillomavirus (HPV). Human papillomavirus is the name of a group of viruses that includes more than 100 different strains or types. More than 30 of these viruses are sexually transmitted, and they can infect the genital area of men and women including the skin of the penis, vulva (area outside the vagina), or anus, and the linings of the vagina, cervix, or rectum. Most people who become infected with HPV will not have any symptoms and will clear the infection on their own."[6]
Also, in the case of HPV condoms DO NOT completely stop the risk of contraction oh HPV, however the use of condoms has been shown by studies to lower the risk of getting this Disease[7]
Some of these viruses are called "high-risk" types, and may cause abnormal Pap tests. They may also lead to cancer of the cervix, vulva, vagina, anus, or penis. Others are called "low-risk" types, and they may cause mild Pap test abnormalities or genital warts. Genital warts are single or multiple growths or bumps that appear in the genital area, and sometimes are cauliflower shaped. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nateland ( talk • contribs) 21:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC).
I waited a couple of hours after I made the proposal.. then i proceeded to post them. however they were soon reverted (Somehow the person who did it isn't on the log) And i'm formally asking the people interested in this article to come and try to reach a decision as it has multiple dubious and POV sections which i've been trying to combat for the past few days to no avail really....
help is appreciated. Article in question: adolescence
Other articles in question: sexual addiction pornography addiction psychology of adolescents
NOTE: We are looking for people willing to help out WITHOUT any kind of point of view, bias, or anything that would worsen the off balance neutrality for these articles.
due to no input having been given for over 12 hours, i'm consider that all parties hereby consent to the temporary replacement of the sexuality section with the text as shown above.
Yours truly, Nateland 20:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
"Genital HPV infection is a sexually transmitted disease (STD) that is caused by human papillomavirus (HPV). Human papillomavirus is the name of a group of viruses that includes more than 100 different strains or types. More than 30 of these viruses are sexually transmitted, and they can infect the genital area of men and women including the skin of the penis, vulva (area outside the vagina), or anus, and the linings of the vagina, cervix, or rectum. Most people who become infected with HPV will not have any symptoms and will clear the infection on their own." [1]
Also, in the case of HPV condoms DO NOT completely stop the risk of contraction oh HPV, however the use of condoms has been shown by studies to lower the risk of getting this Disease[7]
I didn't see what the above had to with the article, so I deleted it. Xiner ( talk, email) 22:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Due to the dispute about the leonard sax information being filled in on the sexuality section I put in just general STD info until it could be resolved.... (I was thinking it would be neutral enough just as a basic filler until this dispute could be fixed)
Although now that it's al lback to the old junk I'm thinking the same thing Xiner, adolescent sex should be relegated to the MAIN topic of sexuality (Maybe the portal or something?, or inside the article on human sexual behaviour?), and then once it's there we can all argue and fuss over what goes in it.
Anyone with me on this? Nateland 21:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
If it was in human sexual behaviour then we could link off into the various other subjects of sexuality as teenagers DO have a diverse range of sexual behaviours including homosexuality and paraphilia's and thus it would allow for GREATER expansion of this topic which needs much information.
And to Illuminato, I know i shouldn't have deleted it. But it's ALL from Leonard Sax!, THAT'S the problem, we need info from BOTH sides of the debate and if it's all LEONARD SAX!, then well.... maybe we should have a for and against section. But I think that what i stated in my post above would be quite fitting as it IS general sexuality.
Then we'll let the larger audience shred it to bits and feud over the content. Although I think that BEFORE we even THINK of sticking it in the sexuality portal we'll need to create a NEW section that is acceptable to the 4 of us as i see it.
That means once it's as neutral as WE and any OTHER people who join in think it ought to be THEN we can discuss amongst ourselves the issue of merging it with the sexuality portal or one of it's subarticles.
What do you think Illuminato/people?
Nateland 21:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, i was just trying to make a compromise that wouldn't be reverted by making for and against sections.
Because.. due to the controversial nature of this topic I think that it requires views from both sides AS WELL as general info (which was deleted multiple times by illuminato) Yes, i recognize i am biased FOR teenage sex and that's the reason i am contending it's current state so much.
I was thinking that with for and against sections as well as a general info (probably statistical and scientific) it would be more informative due... as i said earlier there might be people coming to this page (As it's #1 on googles search for adolescence) for advice and I am worried that the current constantly reverted to section on sexuality WILL cause possible confusion and misguided ideas about the adolescent sex that will NOT be in the interest of the person affected by it.
YES, my FOR section was pov, i was going to add more info and statisttics from the book (Of which there are many), although since I think that judith's book is like a highly liberal version of leonard sax's highly conservative book it's not a very good book for use in wikipedia.
But i DO think that accurate, straight information WHICH tells EXACTLY what the effects and/or consequences of teen sex as WELL as info on contraception, and views of various organizations on this perhaps, WITH some polls of the views on teen sex from teenagers myself.
Well, this my word!, Nateland 02:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh yea, and by straight i mean accurate information (Sorry if it came across to you as being homophobic... kind of a bad choice of words for this topic, just realized :D
The photo URL is dead. But I find it hard to believe that the completely bald man in the backgrund is under 40, and the mustache guy in the foreground looks at least in his 30's. And why are there so few high-school-looking males? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.40.43.141 ( talk) 19:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
Photo Changed Correctus 16:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
"Preteens are increasingly a specifically targeted market segment by business, because they tend to maintain the preferences they develop at this age."
Is this really true? How many adults enjoy "boy bands" and "tween" movies? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.40.43.141 ( talk) 19:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
Now, a minor concern is that the Part on HPV. WHICH can be partially prevented via condom usage (A Centers For disease control link was PLACED within EASY clicking distance to prove this point that it can lower it's risk and yet....
It keeps getting changed to (Oh it cannot be prevented by condoms or anything blah blah blah)
Now what arouses my suspicions is that people against sex among adolescence would do ANYTHING to make sex seem dangerous no matter what.
Even if it's just a little virus, and Illuminato.
HPV can lay dormant for YEARS. So if you get it before you marry, you marry, and you have sex. you can STILL contract HPV!, so EVEN MARRIAGE isn't any good when faced with what you term 'unpreventable diseases' I think i'll add in that part.
Also, the article seems to be doing ok. BUT!, even though most of Leonard Sax's quotes have been removed. There are still parts which i find, oddly unverifiable. I'll check them out though just to make sure.
And thanks SO much Rhobite, Xiner etc. for helping make this article a little smoother!, i'm glad.
Nateland 00:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
teens - and preteens - are too young to fathom the consequences, both physical and emotional, of" sexual activities.
How is that able to be PROVEN?, that's not a very provable point. Comes from world news.
impersonality of twenty-first-century adolescent sex victimizes girls" and "plenty of harm" is done to boys as well.[9] When taking part in hookups "the kids don't even look at each other. It's mechanical, dehumanizing. The fallout is that later in life they have trouble forming relationships. They're jaded.
I have sources to indicate that sex ACTUALLY HELPS relationships form later in life by giving teens the tools to make love, negotiate, and more.
, a professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco and author of The Sex Lives of Teenagers, "early initiation into sexual behaviors [takes] a toll on teens' mental health. The result, she says, can be 'dependency on boyfriends and girlfriends, serious depression around breakups and cheating, [and a] lack of goals.'
This came from World news too. In fact BOTH of these are from a 2005 article that i doubt ANYONE can easily get to. I'm requesting that the person who posted this PROVIDES THE ARTICLE ON-LINE ALONG WITH IT'S SOURCES.
Otherwise it breaks a wikipedia policy (Can't remember which one though), but WHO keeps year old newspapers?, not many people would have the article on hand to verify judging by that. AND newspapers don't usually list sources except random or 'specially picked' scientists who might not have A CLUE what they're talking about. I'm HEAVILY in favor of removing the US and world news report paragraphs and checking into the statement that teens become 'jaded'.
Nateland 00:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I think all of the quotes should be removed, especially if their statements are not supported by data. Just because J. Random Person says something doesn't make it automatically true. -- Uthbrian ( talk) 20:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Any proposed gender-specific terms?? Just like "boy" and "girl" are for "child"?? Georgia guy 00:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following text from the "Adolescent sexuality" section:
One STD that can not be prevented with condoms or the birth control pill is the human papillomavirus (HPV). HPV may lead to certain types of cancer and genital warts.
The first sentence is overstated. There is evidence that condom use may reduce the risk of HPV [2]. -- Uthbrian ( talk) 20:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
It's sloppy, redundant, and an invitation to a POV fork, to have so much material in the "Adolescent sexuality" section when there's also a main article about it. When a sub-topic has its own article, there should just be a brief summary paragraph in the parent article. 69.3.237.3 20:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Illuminato! I, uh...I still think it's too long -- it remains twice the length of any other section. But that was really good-faith-y of you. DanB†DanD 21:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the topic of adolescent sexuality is WAAAYYY to trolled. The part on HPV has been reverted AGAIN and the main article on Adolescent sexuality IS a identical copy.
We've got a MAJOR problem with trollers and I think that we should try and keep the adolescent sexuality part OUT of this article and in the main article on that topic.
EVEN if it means a never ending edit war, we can always try and call in an administrator.
Now... with the main article on adolescent sexuality, I'm up for some revising of it to get rid of any POV statements and try to present all major sides of the debate in a clearly visible manner (This to me is a big problem as I myself am an advocate FOR allowing teenagers to have consensual sex with the use of contraception and whenever I've managed to introduce that side of the debate into the article and it wasn't reverted... well, it was shoved down at the bottom and out of sight basically. )
It looks like we'll need to put in a lot of effort for this. In the meantime I'll check over the main article, add some neutrality tags to the section on this adolescence article.
And I think I'll delete the section here as it's already in the main article on adolescent sexuality (Whomever created it... probably that annoying pest Illuminato when he/she/herma :-) was looking for a way to sneak in a few POV statements, I apologize if i was wrong about Illuminato making it.. but he's given me A LOT of trouble in the past with this topic.
Anyways, good luck to making this a wikified article HOORAY! Nateland 19:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I reverted a recent edit by Nateland where he completely removed a section of the article because another article covered the same topic. However, to quote from WP's guideline on spinout articles, having a summary of a main article is a "completely normal Wikipedia procedure." The Summary style guideline in a nutshell says "When articles grow too long, longer sections should be spun off into their own articles and a several paragraph summary should be left in its place. Such sections are linked to the detailed article with a {{main|<name of detailed article>}} or comparable template under the section title." That is what was there, and what I returned.
Edit the summary to improve it if you like, Nateland, but please do not delete it again. Also, when you make a change of more than 10,000, it is not a minor change. I will assume good faith and consider it a mistake, but please take care not to misuse the minor change button in the future.-- Illuminato 04:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)