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The following phrase appears, whether intentionally or unintentionally, more ideological than factual: "in addition to easy access to contraception, abortion remains imperative to China realising its goals of population stability through its One-child policy." The line would read better as "abortion remains one of the several practices through which China hopes to meet the general goals (e.g., population control) of its One-child policy." As it stands, the original statement seems to imply that the practice of abortion, as state policy, necessarily leads to "population stability." (i.e., "abortion remains imperative to China realising its goals of population stability.") In other words, abortion may meet the goals of the policy (the One-child policy), but whether abortion as policy promotes "population stability" remains unsubstantiated.
Herr Klotz (
talk)
13:55, 3 December 2011 (UTC)Herr Klotz
Hello! I will be adding some information regarding the history of abortion in China. The rest of the article will be left untouched. If there are any questions, please let me know! Scb3 ( talk) 07:31, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
This article avoids open description of the forced abortions in China, originally for the 1 child policy, now for the two child policy. This needs to be included to more accurately show how the communist China government rules the people. [1]
References
China respects peoples choices to start a family they don’t force abortion Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:05, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
The same article used to justify that abortion is a "common way" is not substantiated by the article posted. Instead I've included lines about how access to contraceptive has kept abortion rates low, when compared to other nations like the U.S., which was available in the originally posted article. 4.35.206.186 ( talk) 18:59, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Abortion in china is in fact not available only for health reasons as of now. The current redaction of the page state incorrect informations by saying that abortion is available ONLY for health reasons. Access to abortions for non-medical reasons has been restricted, but not prohibited. The informations on the page need to be precised. Snarcky1996 ( talk) 14:35, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
You have a history of making uncited/or ideological edits and have received warnings for engaging in edit wars.
You want us to ignore reliable cited sources. We simply can’t do that here at Wikipedia. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 19:21, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Snarky looking at your history you have been warned before on other countries in Asia. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 21:25, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Abortion legality varies in different regions:
Here is excerpt from Guardian article:
China: new rules to prevent sex-selective abortions raise fears https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/china-new-rules-jiangxi-province-prevent-sex-selective-abortions
> “Jiangxi province issued guidelines last week stipulating that women more than 14 weeks pregnant must have signed approval from three medical professionals confirming an abortion is medically necessary before any procedure.”
- Jiangxi province only allows non-medically necessary abortions after 14 weeks of pregnancy.
> “In 2004, Guizhou was the first province to enact such a ban. Other Chinese provinces such as Jiangsu, Hunan, Qinghai, Anhui, Henan, and the city of Shanghai have followed suit with varying restrictions on abortions after 14 weeks.”
Guizhou province enacted a ban on non-medically necessary abortions after 14 weeks of pregnancy.
Less clear: Jiangsu province, Hunan province, Qinghai province, Anhui province, Henan province, and the city of Shanghai which have all enacted some form of restriction on abortion after 14 weeks.
Excerpt from New York Times article:
China’s Vow to Reduce Abortions Sparks Public Worries https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/world/asia/china-abortion-limits.html
> “Obtaining an abortion can already be a somewhat cumbersome process in China. Because of many families’ longstanding preference for boys over girls, sex-selective abortions are illegal, and many regions require women to produce certificates of medical necessity. In Jiangxi Province, for example, women who are more than 14 weeks pregnant must obtain three signatures from medical personnel.”
From the
International Campaign for Women's Right to Safe Abortion (SAWR) [www.safeabortionwomensright.org]:
CHINA – Jiangxi province has restricted abortion after the 14th week of pregnancy because of the sex ratio imbalance https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/news/china-jiangxi-province-has-restricted-abortion-after-the-14th-week-of-pregnancy-because-of-the-sex-ratio-imbalance/
> “Jiangxi province’s Health and Family Planning Commission recently issued a notice saying that women who are over 14 weeks pregnant who seek an abortion must have the signed approval of three medical professionals to confirm the abortion is medically necessary, according to the provincial government’s news site jxnews.com. The provincial authorities say this is to help to balance the sex ratio.”
(The Chinese gov’t site they mentioned: jxnews.com)
Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 21:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
I added that while there are different rules on abortion in provinces and cities in most regions of China abortion is legal on demand. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 22:41, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Added a crucial context. The ccp intends to reduce abortions that are not medically necessary by increasing women's access to prenatal care. It is stated in the cited aljazeera and muyingjie articles. It's also stated in the reuters and other sources like cnn.
"The State Council said action would also be taken to avoid unwanted pregnancies and to encourage men to "share responsibility" in preventing them. Authorities aim to improve sex education and strengthen post-abortion and post-childbirth family planning services, the ruling body added."
And I would suggest removing aljazeera and replacing it with this reuters source, as the title is significantly less misleading and click-baity. And the three of you already agree that this policy is not "restricting" non-medical abortions
DemisJohnson ( talk) 06:04, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Here is excerpt from Guardian article:
China: new rules to prevent sex-selective abortions raise fears https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/china-new-rules-jiangxi-province-prevent-sex-selective-abortions
> “Jiangxi province issued guidelines last week stipulating that women more than 14 weeks pregnant must have signed approval from three medical professionals confirming an abortion is medically necessary before any procedure.”
- Jiangxi province only allows non-medically necessary abortions after 14 weeks of pregnancy.
> “In 2004, Guizhou was the first province to enact such a ban. Other Chinese provinces such as Jiangsu, Hunan, Qinghai, Anhui, Henan, and the city of Shanghai have followed suit with varying restrictions on abortions after 14 weeks.”
Guizhou province enacted a ban on non-medically necessary abortions after 14 weeks of pregnancy.
Less clear: Jiangsu province, Hunan province, Qinghai province, Anhui province, Henan province, and the city of Shanghai which have all enacted some form of restriction on abortion after 14 weeks.
Excerpt from New York Times article:
China’s Vow to Reduce Abortions Sparks Public Worries https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/world/asia/china-abortion-limits.html
> “Obtaining an abortion can already be a somewhat cumbersome process in China. Because of many families’ longstanding preference for boys over girls, sex-selective abortions are illegal, and many regions require women to produce certificates of medical necessity. In Jiangxi Province, for example, women who are more than 14 weeks pregnant must obtain three signatures from medical personnel.”
From the
International Campaign for Women's Right to Safe Abortion (SAWR) [www.safeabortionwomensright.org]:
CHINA – Jiangxi province has restricted abortion after the 14th week of pregnancy because of the sex ratio imbalance https://www.safeabortionwomensright.org/news/china-jiangxi-province-has-restricted-abortion-after-the-14th-week-of-pregnancy-because-of-the-sex-ratio-imbalance/
> “Jiangxi province’s Health and Family Planning Commission recently issued a notice saying that women who are over 14 weeks pregnant who seek an abortion must have the signed approval of three medical professionals to confirm the abortion is medically necessary, according to the provincial government’s news site jxnews.com. The provincial authorities say this is to help to balance the sex ratio.”
(The Chinese gov’t site they mentioned: jxnews.com) Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 21:52, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
I added that abortion is legal on demand in most regions (provinces+cities) of China. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 22:37, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
Edit: My bad, it seems like jiangxi policy is a little bit different, you do need a medical certificate after 14 weeks. But it seems like this only applies to jiangxi.
DemisJohnson (
talk)
02:25, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
However, it is more accurate to state that only *Jiangxi requires a medical certificate after fourteen weeks. Because no sources (including those cited) indicate that other provinces have the same policy. DemisJohnson ( talk) 04:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
User:Solidarityandfreedom One sentence from a Guardian article is not enough to prove that other provinces have outlawed non-medical abortion after 14 weeks; there are no credible and not enough sources to support this claim. Furthermore, it doesn't even appear that the Guardian is saying that these provinces prohibit non-medical abortions after 14 weeks.
DemisJohnson ( talk) 10:13, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
Actually many provinces ban after 14 weeks in non medically necessary cases to crack down on sex-selective since there is no way of telling if someone is doing it for that reason. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 22:33, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
A recently added sentence asserts that China was the first country to legalize medical abortion. I do not think this is correct as written. It's not what I remember and at least one specific, readily accessible source that makes me doubt the assertion as written is this scholarly paper:
"The first country to reform its abortion law was the Soviet Union, spurred by feminist Alexandra Kollantai, through a decree on women’s health care in October 1920.2 Since then, progressive abortion law reform (the kind that benefits women) has been justified on public health and human rights grounds, to promote smaller families for population and environmental reasons, and because women’s education and improved socioeconomic status have created alternatives to childbearing. Perhaps most importantly, controlling fertility has become both technically feasible and acceptable in almost all cultures today. Yet despite 100 years of campaigning for safe abortion, the use of contraception has been completely decriminalized while abortion has not."
Could someone clarify? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JArthur1984 ( talk • contribs) 15:15, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
I deleted the incorrect and unsourced statement from the article today. JArthur1984 ( talk) 18:59, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
China in the 20th century has periodically switched between more restrictive abortion policies to more liberal abortion policies and reversals. China is noted as one of the first developing nations to liberalize their abortion laws, although abortion policy shifted back and forth. [1] Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:03, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
References
Is this up to date? The sentence saying it is banned cites a 2001 Baptist article. Another editor removed it saying mephipristone is available. It's been pu back in again. I would not be surprised if information from 2001 is out of date, but does anyone have a source demonstrating so? JArthur1984 ( talk) 17:41, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone know why? Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 22:36, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
This article cites the SCMP for the statement "China was one of the first developing countries to legalize abortion and make it easily accessible." This should be a non-controversial statement. It is entirely supported by the source, which states, "They have been legal for more than half a century since 1953, making China one of the first developing countries in the world to make abortion legal and easily accessible."
@ Solidarityandfreedom, you have objected to this and deleted it multiple times. It is important that this accurate and correctly sourced material stays in the article. Your edits have cited a podcast, but nothing you have identified from the podcast runs contrary to the statement we have in the article, "China was one of the first developing countries to legalize abortion and make it easily accessible." Remember that on Wikipedia, we are not synthesizing (see WP:SYNTH) our own evaluations of the facts, we are writing based on the assertions in reliable sources, giving them their due weight.
So if there is something you believe should be added from the podcast on this point, let's have that be the focus. Even disagreement among sources is not grounds for deletion of one that an editor does not like.
In that spirit, I'm starting a talk page section in case you want to discuss as I do not want to bog down in a revert cycle regarding "China was one of the first developing countries to legalize abortion and make it easily accessible." JArthur1984 ( talk) 15:56, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
I started a separate discussion that’s why I didn’t talk here
China in the 20th century has periodically switched between more restrictive abortion policies to more liberal abortion policies and reversals. China is noted as one of the first developing nations to liberalize their abortion laws, although abortion policy shifted back and forth.
[1]
Solidarityandfreedom (
talk)
16:05, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Under your standards you would be including England as one of the First Nations to legalize abortion.
England legalized abortion (before ~20 weeks of pregnancy) by the end of the 16th century and ruled that it was a misdemeanor after ~20 weeks of pregnancy in 1765. It was recriminalized in England in 1803 when the United Kingdom enacted Lord Ellenborough's Act, making abortion after ~20 weeks of pregnancy a capital crime, and providing lesser penalties for the felony of abortion before ~ 20 weeks of pregnancy. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:06, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
@JArthur1984 I didn’t mean to remove your book source I will add back Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
@JArthyr1984
Other journals and articles don’t describe it as legalization but rather abortion laws being “relaxed”.
For example:
Rigdon SM: Abortion law and practice in China: an overview with comparisons to the United States. Social Science & Medicine. 1996, 42: 543-560. 10.1016/0277-9536(95)00173-5.
https://reproductive-health-journal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1742-4755-2-5
Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:37, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Two scholarly articles right there Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:37, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
@JArthur1984, it wasn’t legalization though, it was merely a relaxation of abortion law. Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 03:06, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
@JArthur1984 trying your hardest to make this article inaccurate I see ehh. Scholarly journals use the term relaxation of abortion laws. NOT, legalization. [2] [3]
Another journal as well: https://www.jstor.org/stable/189264
“The 1953 act still restricted the procedure (abortion) to couples with from four to six children.” Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 14:33, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
References
:2
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).They allowed it under a very specific set of conditions this is liberalization not legalization since it remains illegal under most conditions. This is like saying England legalized abortion in the 18th century, this argument: “England legalized abortion (before ~20 weeks of pregnancy) by the end of the 16th century and ruled that it was a misdemeanor after ~20 weeks of pregnancy in 1765. It was recriminalized in England in 1803 when the United Kingdom enacted Lord Ellenborough's Act, making abortion after ~20 weeks of pregnancy a capital crime, and providing lesser penalties for the felony of abortion before ~ 20 weeks of pregnancy.” Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 15:59, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
China in the 20th century has periodically switched between more restrictive abortion policies to more liberal abortion policies and reversals. China is noted as one of the first developing nations to liberalize their abortion laws, although abortion policy shifted back and forth. [1] Solidarityandfreedom ( talk) 16:03, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
References