Talk:2023 Brovary Helicopter Crash

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A news item involving 2023 Brovary helicopter crash was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 21 January 2023.

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On 22 January 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Brovary helicopter crash. The result of the discussion was not moved.

To add to article

Basic information to add to this article: the cause of the crash. If there was fog at the time of the crash, why not mention that? 204.11.186.190 ( talk) 14:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Done by someone. Ref ^(chew) (do) 09:53, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Can anybody find sources non paid subscription?

There are 2 sources in the article, and those 2 sources are subscription only. I've tried to look, but couldn't find any alternatives. Can anbody find a replacement for them? Enter Demoman ( talk) 17:26, 20 January 2023 (UTC) reply

The Reuters and the CNN articles subscription free Caspian Delta ( talk) 04:13, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply

There are in fact 15 sources in the article, some used multiple times. But I'm not sure that the two you mention ([5] and [9]) are actually needed. 205.239.40.3 ( talk) 10:36, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Requested move 22 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 05:09, 9 February 2023 (UTC) reply

2023 Brovary helicopter crash → Brovary helicopter crash – Unnecessary disambiguation. There are no other 'Brovary helicopter crash' articles from other years. Compusolus ( talk) 08:51, 22 January 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request ( permalink). Compusolus ( talk) 09:30, 22 January 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 00:19, 30 January 2023 (UTC) reply

@ Compusolus, chances are that there will be editor(s) requesting a revert if this is processed as it is now, citing WP:NCEVENTS. Being a potentially controversial move, feel free to take this to a discussion by clicking on the 'discuss' link above. – robertsky ( talk) 09:05, 22 January 2023 (UTC) reply
And also, you could even argue that the year is more important than the place. For example, I don't think I will remember the name "Brovary" going forward, but I will remember there was a helicopter crash that killed Ukrainian government people in 2023. Dr. Vogel ( talk) 12:09, 22 January 2023 (UTC) reply

S̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶: Oppose: Like the examples for Flight Number 1 in 1936, 1941, and 1962, still put the date in there, it makes more sense and would be useful in the future. ☭MasterWolf-Æthelwulf☭ ( talk). 00:07, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply

'S̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶: Oppose That Prussian1872 ( talk) 17:39, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Oppose: Not that i hope another helicopter crashes at the same place, but just in case, i think we should continue to show the year. Thehistorianisaac ( talk) 13:24, 29 January 2023 (UTC) reply

copied from RM/TR – robertsky ( talk) 15:00, 22 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Support per nom, no need for the year. – filelakeshoe ( t / c) 🐱 14:01, 22 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Support same, the name Brovary is specific enough WikiHelper0830 ( talk) 17:45, 22 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Support There is no other accident article with this name, so the year is redundant. T v x1 19:36, 22 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Support per nom, I also say there's no need for the year to be mentioned. Ref ^(chew) (do) 09:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Comment Brovary seems more than specific enough for the crash for a year to be included. In fact, I'm more interested as to whether this level of specificity will be used and popularised by current and retrospective media going forward - the only Ukranian source listed describes it as a "crash in Brovary", but every other source linked in English describes it as a "Ukraine" or "Kyiv" crash. XymphosCraK ( talk) 10:17, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply
This reminds me a bit of the 2012 Aurora, Colorado shooting, which most non-local sources reported as happening in Denver (and a few redirects like Denver Batman massacre got sent to RfD and kept) – filelakeshoe ( t / c) 🐱 10:34, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Support, with an understanding that 2023 Kyiv helicopter crash is a perfectly acceptable redirect. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 21:40, 23 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Support and snow close Seems to have broad consensus to move. PhotographyEdits ( talk) 13:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC) reply

I agree with XymphosCraK that "Ukraine" or "Kyiv" crash seems more appropriate. I know 2023 is not actually needed, but I don't see what great harm it does. 205.239.40.3 ( talk) 13:36, 24 January 2023 (UTC) reply

Support, per norm and above -- Tbf69 11:59, 25 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Support it doesn't make any sense to include the year of the event if no other aviation incidents happened in Brovary Republic of Selmaria ( talk) 06:44, 25 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Oppose – There is no requirement to use the shortest possible non-ambiguous title. '2023' is just four-character long and greatly increases clarity. Unlike e.g. the French or American revolutions, the Brovary helicopter crash isn't exactly an event so widely known that doesn't need any chronological hint to be identified. -- Deeday-UK ( talk) 22:15, 25 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Agreed, I would be in favor of even extending the title to include, "crash involving Ukrainian Interior Ministers". Kcmastrpc ( talk) 17:45, 27 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Oppose - Brovary crash would unlikely be so widely known in Anglosphere that usual reader in 2025 would understand without reading that it has happened in 2023. -- M1911 ( talk) 12:34, 26 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Oppose, Deeday nailed it, the date adds clarity. Ribbet32 ( talk) 15:55, 26 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Oppose, "Ukraine" or "Kyiv" seem more appropriate than Brovary. I don't see that "2023" is unhelpful to the general reader. Quite the reverse. If there were further notable helicopter crashes in Ukraine this year, we would need to reconsider. Until then... meh. 205.239.40.3 ( talk) 21:25, 26 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Oppose per Deeday & WP:AVINAME (which I'm surprised no one here talked about it yet), which states "An article should be named as "AIRLINE FLIGHT NUMBER", for example Air Florida Flight 90, or if there is no flight number, then "DATE LOCATION AIRLINE AIRCRAFT TYPE crash", for example 2007 Mogadishu TransAVIAexport Airlines Il-76 crash." In fact by right the article name should be specific to the aircraft type as well (see 2021 Indian Air Force Mil Mi-17 crash, 2009 Medair Bell 206 crash and many others) but I’m not gonna complicate this discussion so simply oppose move for now. SBS6577P ( talk) 12:33, 27 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Relisting comment: Relisted to obtain more consensus. Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 00:19, 30 January 2023 (UTC) reply
Oppose the move as currently proposed, agree with SBS6577P about the applicability of WP:AVINAME. Andrew11374265 ( talk) 23:18, 6 February 2023 (UTC) reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.