This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of
History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all
list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Years, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Years on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.YearsWikipedia:WikiProject YearsTemplate:WikiProject YearsYears articles
2023 is now halfway done and I think we can start working on a collage. There will obviously be moments later in the year that would replace some of those I'm about to mention. Anyway here's my suggestions:
Personally I am of the opinion we shouldn't have a dedicated discussion on the collage until say late-November or December. A lot can happen in another 6 months so I'd rather we just let it play out before we focus on the collage. That being said, in my opinion some of the events suggested I don't think reflect this year or at least aren't as impactful as others. The events in question that you have listed are; The Titan Implosion - It doesn't have any impact on much, Charles' Coronation - Debatable but is likely not going to get past voting, Spy Balloon - It was impactful but feel wasn't as notable as other events, Wagner Rebellion - Could be really impactful but I suggest just waiting and seeing how it pans out.
CaptainGalaxy14:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)reply
We have already come to a concensus on the collage
We have added the earthquakes, the Brazillian congress attack, the banking crsis, and the ICC's arrest warrant for Putin. You can find the links to the images on the edit page. Thanks for trying
DementiaGaming (
talk)
15:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)reply
How the heck are you all trying to design a collage for 2023 and aren't talking about adding the genocide in Palestine? The ruins of Gaza MUST be included...
63.155.5.200 (
talk)
20:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Where was the decision that we needed a collage for 2023, and where is the discussion on how the process should be carried out?
Deb (
talk)
08:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree with @
Deb on this matter. I'm of the belief we should wait until 2025 to make decisions on what images to add for 2023. It gives more time for users to reflect on what events are most important for 2023 and we can get more objective consensus.
PaulRKil (
talk)
18:46, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The process I proposed & started is over two-months long (with two separate RfCs). Waiting until 2025 doesn't really do much since there would be over 2 months of community discussion and reflection (At least 2 RfCs). By the end of it (in March 2024), we should easily know what was the biggest events of 2023. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)01:41, 17 January 2024 (UTC)reply
In this discussion, add image and/or event candidates that you think should or could be in the yearly collage image. To add candidates, add the image as [[File:Example.jpg|250x250px]] followed by OPTION (Letter next in order). To add a second image candidate for the same event, add it as OPTION X(Number next in order).
This discussion will not be voted on until at least: 14:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC).
I just added the closer-zoomed image as a second option. In the discussion above this one, another user added the larger-zoom image, so I am not going to directly remove it. But you are absolutely right! A smaller image was needed. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)22:37, 15 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment - Once again, highly US-centric options have been offered. This proposed collage purports itself to be a pictorial summary of the year. Therefore, the initial list should be a list of Events that are agreed to be the most important of the year. Only after that's been agreed should we start looking for images of those events.
Deb (
talk)
08:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Deb: — I think you are missing the idea of this first week. Everyone can add images and events. It is U.S. centric as only a single image has been added in addition to the images from the previous list. Add anything you think needs to be there. Step 1 is a week for everyone to add images. Step 2 is a vote to agree these are the candidates for the vote. Step 3 is the vote. If it is U.S. centric, now is your chance to add images to counter it. In short, add images right now. There is at least 6 days where you can before any sort of votes take place. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)15:18, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, everyone can add images and events, and those images and events can be removed by anyone else. If you are putting a collage at the top of a year page, purporting to be a summary of the year, then it must be a summary of the year, not just a set of images that someone happened to be able to find that they thought looked nice. There is no agreement on the process for agreeing content of a proposed collage, and you should not be trying to impose one.
Deb (
talk)
16:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I am not trying to be rude here at all, but I am completely confused why you say I am “trying to impose” the process for it. I legit proposed this idea in the now closed attempt above where you and three other editors all basically agreed to it. You basically just walked back on your previous statement, where you said no one should start a collage discussion with images they choose. The way to counter that was to allow everyone to add images. Then we vote to agree those are the candidates. Then we vote on the collage images. No one is imposing anything. I had practical consensus, including from you for this process.
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#RfC: Removal of image collages was the long discussion which involved 67 people and 220 comments about collages. In reality there was collage images on every yearly article. These got removed and then was agreed to be reinstated. The big topic of debate was that there was no process to begin with. I proposed a process and had, what I presumed was, at least a running consensus going forward, since you are three others supported the idea I proposed. I apologize if I mistook
your “Absolutely” here as a support for what I proposed. What are your concerns with my proposed idea, since you questioned the idea that one person should decide the images & the idea that the community shouldn’t decide the images. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)16:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I agreed that consensus should be sought for the images that are included. I have never agreed that this is a good way of finding consensus. I say that you are trying to impose a process because that's what you are doing. You are suggesting that somewhere there has been an agreement that the images people like best, rather than images of the most significant events, should be included in a pictorial summary of the year. This is not the case and the method you propose, by its very nature, cannot ensure that the selection of images is a fair and impartial summary as required by the NPOV policy.
Deb (
talk)
18:26, 16 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Well, that might sound “good” in theory, but without a plan to execute that, it won’t work. Also, a counter to that argument is the collage on
World War II. One would easily argue D-Day as being one of the most important events during the war. And yet, it is not in the collage. Collages are supposed to be images (not necessarily events) that help showcase the year. This way seems to work, and so far, your challenge is a minority view. I will note this down though so if others start to oppose this method, we can have a full-RfC to determine what method to use. Cheers! The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)17:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)reply
So you mean that it's okay for you to make up your own plan for what you want to do, but you don't want to put any effort into making a plan that has a chance of making the result compliant with Wikipedia policy? "Collages are supposed to be images (not necessarily events) that help showcase the year" - where did you hear that? We don't need to "showcase" the year - the year happened and the article already exists.
Deb (
talk)
18:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)reply
See
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#RfC: Removal of image collages. That idea that we don’t need to “showcase” the year is not the consensus. The consensus is to have collages. Collages existed on every yearly article until they were removed before the RfC concluded. The RfC actually concluded that they should be added back in. There was and is no formal plan for collages. Right now, I could make a collage and add it without a discussion. I am not doing that as comments brought up in the RfC commented that there was no procedures in place at all. Yes I made this procedure up because it is the first one. Again, you are the first (and so far only) person to question this procedure, which is the first of its kind. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)18:33, 17 January 2024 (UTC)reply
No, the consensus (allegedly) is to reject the idea of not having collages. It's still necessary to discuss the proposed content.
Deb (
talk)
16:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Well, I added one in. You can lose your minds on it again and argue about it for months again, or you can just let it go and accept the fact that even though it might not suit all your wants, it features 8 notable-enough events to be on the photomontage.
DementiaGaming (
talk)
03:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)reply
How? There is no process. This process which I started is the only currently-existing process for collage image decisions. You want us to decide for the events, which is not what the collage is for. The collage is some of the best pictures to represent the year. Again, this discussion was not required by any means as there was no process before. The sole reason I started this discussion was because people had concerns of OR in that large RfC. Since there is no standardized process, there is no reason to alter this proposal of a method. If you think this idea that I proposed does not work, I encourage you to start your own RfC to create a standardized method for collages. Until then, there is no better way to solve the debate on collages, since this method allows for everyone to add candidates, everyone to vote on the candidates & most importantly, a community consensus on what images are the most important or most worthy of the collage. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)17:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Cremastra, just a head's up, the vote for the collage images isn't yet. This is just a week period for people to submit what images they think should or could be in the collage. Then, we will vote to ensure there is a consensus for a college vote (basically a vote to see if consensus allows us to move forward for a collage). Then we actually vote for the 8 collage images. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)01:39, 17 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The Barbie image as shown here is not eligible for inclusion. The given caption does not correspond to an event. It's doubtful whether the release of the film should even be included under events.
Deb (
talk)
09:10, 17 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Can you explain why the image is not eligible? It appears to be licensed CC BY-SA 2.0, so should be fine in any article. — HTGS (
talk)22:15, 18 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I've explained to you how a meaningful process that complies with NPOV could be introduced. Is there any reason for you to oppose that?
Deb (
talk)
18:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The process your proposed, if I understand correctly was: RfC on which events are most important. Then using that list, you find the images. That doesn’t work since an important event may not have a good image or even a visually appealing image. Here is a good example. Imagine if the
2024 missile strikes in Yemen was voted to be one of the 6 event candidates. The two actual “images” (excluding the map) for it are very dark due to it being night time. That said, another image from a slightly lesser-known or lesser-important event (random example:
Attacks on U.S. bases in Iraq and Syria (2023–present)) would be a heck of a lot more ascetically appealing for readers. Decided what is the most important events doesn’t really work well since collages (i.e. images) aren’t events. That is the issue. The
Weather Event Writer (
Talk Page)18:23, 18 January 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Deb That approach sounds like a good way to waste time. The current process is already more drawn out than it needs to be IMO, but it does inherently include user selection of important events. If you have important events you think should be included here, suggest them and others can find images for them if you are having a hard time. — HTGS (
talk)22:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The most significant events of 2023 are the events mentioned in the lead of the article. If that's not the case, then the lead needs fixing, separate from any image selection. But it shouldn't be difficult to identify the most significant events of the year, as they'd be the ones in the lead, and ergo the images for the collage should be images of what's mentioned in the lead.
However, the collage is going to depict a subset of the events in the lead (because there are too many events for one collage). Image search and selection would be narrowed if editors first decided which events in the lead are important enough to include in the collage. That should be Step 1. That would save time and reduce the number of images to find/look at/discuss. Step 2 would then be finding/agreeing on the "best" image for each lead event that will be depicted in the collage.
Lead events that don't make it into the collage should be pictured elsewhere in the article (they're "important" enough for a picture). So, another way to go about this is to just find the "best" images of everything that's mentioned in the lead, and then discuss which of those images should be in the lead collage, and which in the body of the article.
Levivich (
talk)
00:29, 19 January 2024 (UTC)reply
So far there has been a lot of discussion about how to discuss the images. How about @
Deb or @
Levivich you give your takes on which events should be featured? Because that process is not incompatible to the current one. — HTGS (
talk)00:43, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
In my view, "year in review" sources should be used to determine the most significant events of the year (what should go in the lead). I'm not sure what sources the current lead is based on if any, and I'm not confident the current lead has all the most significant events of the year per RS. But choosing from what's in the lead right now, I'd say: Turkey/Syria earthquake, Gaza war, N-K war, banking crisis. Chandrayaan-3 isn't in the lead but I bet RS would suggest it should be, and if so, I'd say also in the collage as a 5th image. For a 6th, I don't know that you can find an image of AI (that's not an advertisement, e.g. not a logo), so maybe Cyclone Nargis.
Levivich (
talk)
00:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)reply
A(1) - I think it is a better image of "Brazilian Congress attack" than the second one. The first one clearly shows multiple people and a Brazilian flag. The second one, on the other hand, looks like ruins. Without context, it would be hard to tell that this was an attack on the Brazilian Capitol.
27 is my favorite number.
You can ask me why here.19:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)reply
In 2023 the Bulletin of The Atomic Scientists moved the hands of The Doomsday Clock to 90 seconds to midnight for the first time ever bringing the world closer to midnight than it has ever been. Surely that deserves a mention ?
2.99.81.33 (
talk)
08:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I think that this article should have more notable sports events. For example, championships like the Texas Rangers winning the World Series 4 games to 1 against the Arizona Diamondbacks on Nov. 1, The Kansas City Chiefs defeating the Philadelphia Eagles 38-35 for another Super Bowl win on Feb 12, The Vegas Golden Knights winning their first championship on June 13, beating the Florida Panthers for the Stanly Cup in 5 games, etc. Also good to mention is Buffalo Bills Safety Damar Hamlin suffering a Cardiac Arrest during a game on Jan 2nd, miraculously surviving and went back to football. These are some edits I would like to see on this page.
Sethy3 (
talk)
18:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)reply