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The opposition characterized the government's constitutional amendment as a "coup", but nothing has been overthrown, much less by the military. Anti-government protests have set fire to the congress building to prevent progress of a bill to weaken the current one-term presidential limit. The characterization is hyperbole, which should not be reflected in a WP article title.
Not that the riots might not trigger a coup d'état on the pretext that the government cannot maintain order, but that's a hypothetical future.
71.41.210.146 (
talk)
09:39, 1 April 2017 (UTC)reply
The same regime is still in power—there has been no coup d'état to topple someone. There still will have to be a referendum held. And then an election. The Supreme Court is still going to rule about whether the Senate vote was illegal. But there isn't a new ruler or anything like that.
El_C06:16, 2 April 2017 (UTC)reply
I don't know, it seems like a bit of a stretch. We have a vote in the Senate, which the Supreme Court will rule on its legality. But calling that a coup, which I realise the opposition is doing, could be premature for Wikipedia to decide on.
El_C06:31, 2 April 2017 (UTC)reply
That's not for us to decide, and we are not the mouthpiece of the Paraguayan Supreme Court. It was presented as a coup attempt. It's not a coup because it failed but definitely an attempt.
Zigzig20s (
talk)
06:37, 2 April 2017 (UTC)reply
We go by RS. If RS call it a coup attempt, we can add the category. We are not the mouthpiece of the Paraguayan government. If you want to disambiguate the category, by creating one for coups and another one for coup attempts, you could try that...
Zigzig20s (
talk)
07:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)reply
The articles are not the same, and can't be compared. In Venezuela, the Congress was closed (and then reopened again after the backlash, but it was closed). Closing one of the three powers is definitely something that sets apart a coup from mere political authoritarianism. No such thing took place here: a
constitutional amendment is an acceptable and lawful event, even if there is some controversy on how it is carried out.
Cambalachero (
talk)
14:30, 5 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Constitutional crisis? New title?
While working on the
2017 Venezuelan constitutional crisis, I also saw in sources that this incident was called a "constitutional crisis". I think we could expand on this article placing it under that name and showing more background. Share some opinions, don't be shy.--
ZiaLater (
talk)
22:41, 2 April 2017 (UTC)reply
The question is whether the protests should be the focus or the constitutional crisis that caused them. I have no strong opinion, but am leaning at two articles: one about the protests, the other about the closed Senate vote.
El_C22:57, 2 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Makes sense, to me it just depends on whether the protests maintain momentum, then it would be appropriate to just have one article. That's why I was thinking of having a "constitutional crisis" article and a protest section of such. If protests grow, then maybe it would be necessary to make a separate article to cover those events.--
ZiaLater (
talk)
00:56, 3 April 2017 (UTC)reply
I did not support the name change of the Venezuela article, but unfortunately it was changed. Using the same arguments I used before, calling something a constitutional crisis is too vague. Someone who stumbles upon this article as a Google search result won't know straight away that it is about the protests and the Congress' attempt to allow reelection. They will most likely be expecting to see an article about the protests, and the name would catch their attention. You just can't go around wanting to call every political controversy a constitutional crisis.
Holy Goo (
talk)
02:50, 5 April 2017 (UTC)reply
By the way, all headlines I remember seeing mentioned the protests, but that's just my word. When I Google "Paraguay News", most headlines I see are about protests and the Congress being set on fire. I don't have time now to go copy and paste links.
Holy Goo (
talk)
03:25, 5 April 2017 (UTC)reply
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
I'm not necessarily opposed to a title change, but the article isn't about the amendment; it's about the reaction to it. I think we'd have to re-write the article for that change to make sense. Maybe "2017 Paraguayan constitutional crisis"? Can we call it a constitutional crisis? If not, maybe just political crisis? --
Irn (
talk)
13:47, 21 April 2017 (UTC)reply
A crisis directly tied to the bill, so the article should be about the bill. Of course that all the news outlets will be discussing the protests, and this article was written in the hurry to reflect the issue; but now that that's done we should focus on the bigger picture.
Cambalachero (
talk)
14:04, 21 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Move to "2017 Paraguayan crisis". It is about more than just the protests. It is about a lot more than just "2017 amendment to the Constitution of Paraguay", so that's not a good name for the article, and keeping the existing name would be better than that. "2017 Paraguayan constitutional crisis" or "2017 Paraguayan political crisis" would be OK too, although they do not satisfy conciseness as well.
Herostratus (
talk)
03:42, 27 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Move to 2017 Paraguayan political crisis per Herostratus (whose proposal is also acceptable) – I think that "crisis" needs qualification per
WP:PRECISION, and we don't have to be concise at all costs, particularly in a descriptive title. I agree that the proposed title falls short of describing the contents.
No such user (
talk)
13:57, 28 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Move to "2017 Paraguayan crisis" as stopgap until there is greater agreement to change to alternative title. Seems that the situation in Paraguay is escalating into something more than just protests. Also, if the title is changed, the layout should change from the
current version as well. The "Aftermath" section should be either renamed or reorganized. --
George Ho (
talk)
18:42, 29 April 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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