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Reviewer: The Rambling Man ( talk · contribs) 10:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC) reply

Comments

• The "n.a."s in the fair use programme image need to be addressed. I'd be surprised if this really meets the spirit of fair use anyway, I don't see how the programme cover enhances our reader's understanding of the article, the programme itself is not even mentioned in the prose.
  • Removed. Harrias ^talk 10:57, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• There's a link for two-legged tie I think.
  • Linked. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• You could link generic European Cup in the lead.
  • Linked. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Link all the football jargon, so header, penalty, free kick, etc.
  • Done. Harrias ^talk 18:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "a major club" I think it's best to stick with just "club" and perhaps find something that says it's considered the premier club competition (as you have in the lead).
  • Removed "major": I think that the second part of the sentence "..contested by the best teams across Europe." provides enough context. Harrias ^talk 18:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "Until the 1990s, only the league champion from each country qualified.[1] The competition was first played in 1955–56." feels like the wrong way round.
  • Rearranged and specified for clarity. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• " Until the 1990s, only the league champion from each..." you then go on to prove this wasn't true for the first tournament.
  • Resolved this by making it more specific. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Be consistent with your capitalisation of Final when saying "European Cup final/Final" as it differs across the article.
  • Done. Harrias ^talk 18:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC) reply
    • I don't think this was necessary. Whether or not "final" is a proper noun depends on the context, so you can't say it needs to be one or the other all the way through without looking at how it's used each time. – Pee Jay 19:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC) reply
      • Asking for consistency doesn't imply one should ignore context. Obviously. The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 19:27, 27 May 2020 (UTC) reply
        • My fault, I was lazy when I went through them. Harrias ^talk 08:14, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "They defended... They were losing..." in each case you've lost who "they" were because you mention another club in between.
  • Replaced with "Benfica" in each instance. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "in each of 1956–57 and 1957–58.[4]" missing a word, like "tournaments" perhaps?
  • Changed to "in both 1956–57 and 1957–58." Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Not sure what relevance Munich has to this article.
  • Munich and United's European campaigns under Busby are completely intertwined not just in United's history, but in contemporary news reports. It would be a glaring omission not to include it. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Link UEFA when you use it on its own.
  • Linked. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "the English Football Association" just "The Football Association" will do, there is after all only one "The Football Association".
  • You and I know that, but does everyone? Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "but were subsequently eliminated in the semi-final" no need for subsequently.
  • Removed. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Shame the table columns aren't the same in each Route to the final section.
  • Agreed, but I'm always wary of fixing widths, in case it messes things up for small screens. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Eusébio is overlinked.
  • Sorted (and the other duplicate links). Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "once again thanks to" not really encyclopedic in tone.
  • Rephrased. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "the second leg.[15] In the second leg" repetitive.
  • Rephrased. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• " The Guardian said" who in the Guardian?
  • Staff writer, not attributed: changed from "said" to "reported". Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "and booked them" perhaps "secured" rather than booked for tone.
  • Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "got two goals each" scored rather than got?
  • Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• The Guardian is overlinked.
  • done. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "a "sad succession of near misses"" according to whom?
  • Attributed; another unknown. Harrias ^talk 13:13, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "Manchester United were expected to beat them" ditto.
  • I've simply removed this. Harrias ^talk 10:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• " narrowly avoided going behind in the 27th minute" any more detail than the minute?
  • Expanded. Harrias ^talk 10:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "had to go off injured," worth a footnote here explaining that substitutions were disallowed, because most readers will be like, "well wut? Bring on another player".
  • I'm really struggling to find a source for this one. Harrias ^talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
    • Alright, it would have been nice, but hey, certainly not part of the GA criteria. The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• "back-heeled the ball into the goal after a shot from Jimmy Ryan" was it after Ryan's shot was saved or because Ryan's shot ended up at his feet?
  • Rephrased to "In the dying minutes of the game, Jimmy Ryan shot into a melee of players in the penalty area, including Brian Kidd, who backheeled the ball into the goal to make it 2–0.", how is that? Harrias ^talk 11:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• Real Madrid is overlinked.
  • Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "only a goal " perhaps "a single goal" to avoid that POV "only".
  • Changed as suggested. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "In The Guardian, Albert " Guardian overlinked again.
  • Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Hugh McIlvanney has an article.
  • So he does, linked. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "newspaper A Bola concurred" not sure they concurred, the previous sentence slates the Man Utd team but A Bola said they were the last team they wanted to face...
  • Made a little blander, hopefully that removes the apparent contradiction. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Denis Law is overlinked.
  • Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Might want to link Surrey as this is a geographically "agnostic" article.
• Especially as you link Harlow.
  • Yup, linked. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• " the 30,000 Manchester United asked for." -> " the 30,000 for which Manchester United asked."
  • Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "standing tickets originally priced at 10 shillings were selling for £7" link shilling and presumably these were by touts? That's not clear.
  • Linked, and added "on the black market" to reflect the source. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• No need to link London.
  • Oops, removed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "estimated television audience of 250 million" where/who broadcast?
  • Clarified to "..had an estimated European television audience.." per the source, which gives no more detail than that. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "10 yards from " usually convert.
  • Not that WP:OTHERSTUFF is a good argument, but 1981 UEFA Cup Final doesn't. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• " high over the bar, before he hit the crossbar" bar/crossbar repeat.
  • Switched the first to "goal". Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• And shot/shot in that sentence too.
  • Changed the first to "struck". Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "José Augusto and José Torres " both overlinked.
  • Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "two dangerous chances" dangerous is POV.
  • Removed. Harrias ^talk 20:40, 26 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• What is referencing the 4-3-3 for each team?
  • @ PeeJay2K3: Looking through the history of the article, it looks like you set the positions based on the DVD. Newspaper sources seem to differ: the only one that explicitly includes formations agrees that United played a 4-3-3, but lists Benfica as playing a 4-2-4. Do you have anything we can use as a reliable source for a Benfica 4-3-3? Harrias ^talk 08:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
    • Going to chime in here. The marvellous Jonathan Wilson in his book, The Anatomy of Manchester United, states that Benfica lined up in a 4-3-3. He's not as forthright on the formation United adopted, suggesting the intention was to match it but that they differed from that plan. See here Hope this helps somewhat. NapHit ( talk) 11:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
      • I've actually found that transfermarkt has them, so have added that. Harrias ^talk 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
        • Harrias Is transfermarkt.com now considered a WP:RS? The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
          • Ah, I see now that it is user generated; I missed that when I first looked it over. My bad. (I knew it looked too good to be true.) Harrias ^talk 13:21, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
            • @ The Rambling Man: How about the Irish Daily Mirror? Harrias ^talk 13:47, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
              • It's not ideal but at the very least the Mirror is usually quite reliable for sports, and I don't find it on the verboten list at WP:RS/N and it's not quite "sky is blue" territory but close, so all told it's okay with me. The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• I think the referee should be mentioned in the prose.
  • Added. Harrias ^talk 11:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• MOSFLAG, not sure they're doing much here, and in any case, they should explain what they mean on first use.
  • Ditto with 1981 UEFA Cup Final: I'd love to replace them with {{ flagathlete}} but whenever I have tried on these articles, it just gets reverted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• Where are linesmen referenced?
  • Removed. Harrias ^talk 11:18, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• No need to link Italy. Twice.
  • It was actually an easter egg link to Italian Football Federation, removed. Still there for the referee. Twice. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• European Cup, Charlton and Foulkes are overlinked.
  • Sorted. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "just a year after" remove "just".
  • Removed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• " captain Bobby Charlton and Bill Foulkes were the only survivors of the crash to play in the 1968 final." to be fair, it's quite unusual that players remain with a club for ten years.
  • Fair point, rephrased. Harrias ^talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• "contested the 1968 Intercontinental Cup" when where?
  • I don't think that level of detail about another tie is necessary in this article. Harrias ^talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply
• "Both teams competed" which "both"?
  • Clarified. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "Benfica have subsequently reached "probably needs WP:ASOF.
  • Added. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• "six more European" further (to avoid repeat of X more Y)
  • Yup, changed. Harrias ^talk 13:42, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply
• You link Daily Telegraph in the refs but not any other works/publishers.
• Oh you do, The Guardian but not consistently and not on its first instance.
  • I have given the references a thorough going over, hopefully all nice and tidy now. Harrias ^talk 18:48, 26 May 2020 (UTC) reply

That's all I have on the first pass, so I'll put it on hold. Cheers. The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC) reply

@ The Rambling Man: Note: I'm just starting to work through this. I'm skipping a few points on my first pass, but I'm highlighting them in red so that I don't miss them later, I hope you don't mind. Harrias ^talk 13:17, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply

I don't mind. The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:20, 25 May 2020 (UTC) reply

@ The Rambling Man: Eventually I have responded to each point above, would you be able to take another look? Harrias ^talk 11:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC) reply

All good, literally. Happy to promote. Cheers. The Rambling Man ( Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:19, 5 June 2020 (UTC) reply