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I'm confused. The article states that "However, McCarthy refused to withdraw from the Presidential race and made it clear that he would contest Kennedy in the upcoming New York primary" ... and then says that only thirteen states (New York not among them) held primaries. Could someone please clarify? --
Avocado (
talk)
16:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)reply
The one missing from the states listing was West Virginia - it is included in the chart as having "unpledged" delegates, so I corrected that particular statement so the listing is consistent with the chart. As for New York, Eric is correct, 1980 was the first year they had a primary similar to the other states in the chart.
Rosalina523 (
talk)
16:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Extremely late, but New York used to have Delegate Primaries where Delegates to the National Convention were elected, as opposed to a Presidential Primary; Delegates in each Congressional District were listed with a designation indicating which candidate they supported or if they were uncommitted, and the top three vote getters would be named that District's Delegates. At-Large delegates which made up about a third of the delegation give or take would be named exclusively by the Party's State Committee. The confusing and undemocratic nature of the whole system lead to it being disbanded by 1980 in favor of a traditional Presidential Primary. --
Ariostos (
talk)
07:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)reply
McCarthy
McCarthy was excluded from the title thing at the top, so I put him back.
I am also confused in that the list of endorsers at the bottom lists Harold Hughes for George McGovern, yet in fact Hughes gave the nominating speech at the 1968 Democratic Convention for Eugene McCarthy.
Andymickey (
talk)
19:51, 10 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Extremely late, and I will have to double-check, but I vaguely remember Harold Hughes being rather... chaotic in terms of who he threw his support to. While he did ultimately support Eugene McCarthy at the Democratic Convention, I believe that at first he did support George McGovern as the successor candidate to Bobby Kennedy in lieu of Ted Kennedy having no interest himself. I think it was when he arrived at the conclusion that McCarthy was the only viable Anti-War candidate in the running that he double-backed and endorsed McCarthy, and then the McCarthy campaign asked him to make the nominating speech in the hopes of winning over delegates that had previously been in favor of Kennedy. --
Ariostos (
talk)
07:55, 12 January 2021 (UTC)reply
New York Primary
The article mentions that McCarthy "made it clear that he would contest Kennedy in the upcoming New York primary", but New York isn't included in the subsequent list of states conducting primaries at the time or the table of primary results.--
89.206.231.2 (
talk)
09:12, 19 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Extremely late, but New York used to have Delegate Primaries where Delegates to the National Convention were elected, as opposed to a Presidential Primary; Delegates in each Congressional District were listed with a designation indicating which candidate they supported or if they were uncommitted, and the top three vote getters would be named that District's Delegates. At-Large delegates which made up about a third of the delegation give or take would be named exclusively by the Party's State Committee. The confusing and undemocratic nature of the whole system lead to it being disbanded by 1980 in favor of a traditional Presidential Primary. --
Ariostos (
talk)
07:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)reply
In-Progress New Primaries and Caucuses Results List
Something I have been working on for a couple of days now, but it is becoming increasingly clear that the sources I have on hand, primarily the archives of the New York Times, are not going to be enough to finish this. I'll admit that I have always wanted to fill out the entirety of the map for each of the Presidential nomination contests as, realistically, the primaries were always at most something of a sideshow until '72 or '76, and it is important to note how the cards came down in the other States to better explain the situation on the Convention floor. Of course the '68 Democratic Primaries are complicated by Kennedy's assassination... which complicates how best to display the results. As an example, Indiana was won by Kennedy and he took at least sixty votes, potentially sixty three depending on how the State Convention felt when they certified Kennedy's victory; unfortunately the Convention was to be held some time after the California primary, and with Kennedy's death the Indiana delegates were legally uncommitted. Fast-forward to the the Convention, the State Democratic Party stacks the delegation with "uncommitted" Humphrey supporters, with four or five delegates awarded to McCarthy.
Therefore, it seems important to display the situation of the Primaries as it existed on June 4th with those final primaries, but that it seems just as important to display the State of the Race as of August 26th when all of the contests have concluded and the Kennedy-favoring delegations have moved elsewhere. I also feel it is important to push back the Presidential Primaries that don't award any delegates in favor of the Delegate Primaries that do, as those would be far more representative; Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire are the ones that come to mind.
Any help or input that could be provided by other users would be immensely helpful, as I'm loathe to put the table in in its current state. I'll continue tinkering away here and there, I know that there are quite a number of States still missing especially in the South and West (i.e. Texas), but there may not be much more I myself can add. --
Ariostos (
talk)
07:43, 12 January 2021 (UTC)reply
^Includes 186 votes for John Crommelin, 2,532 write-in votes for Richard Nixon, 506 write-in votes for Paul Fisher, and 249 write-in votes for Nelson Rockefeller
^While originally uncommitted, the delegates on April 10th named the Governor of South Carolina, Robert McNair, as their Favorite Son candidate to the National Convention. Some thought was given to him being a regional candidate for the South or potentially as a candidate for the Vice Presidency.
^Congressmen Joseph Resnick of the 28th District sought to become the Favorite-Son of New York at the National Convention.
^Includes 3,434 write-in votes for Richard Nixon, 1,849 write-in votes for Nelson Rockefeller, 327 write-in votes for Ronald Reagan, and 21 write-in votes for Raymond Shafer.
^Includes 2,275 write-in votes for Nelson Rockefeller and 575 write-in votes for Richard Nixon.
^
abcBecause of filing deadline problems, only one delegate was listed on the ballot as actually pledged to Kennedy; thirteen others on the official Kennedy slate were uncommitted, with another nine being listed as pledged to Johnson. The thirteen uncommitted delegates that favored Kennedy were elected and are counted as his despite not being formally pledged. Eight other uncommitted delegates not part of the Kennedy slate where elected. Kennedy also won two Congressional Districts with two delegates apiece, McCarthy carrying one.
^Includes 2,731 write-in votes for Richard Nixon, 1,905 write-in votes for Ronald Reagan, 509 write-in votes for Nelson Rockefeller, and 12 write-in votes for Americus Liberator.
^While many of the delegates had clear listed preferences, the delegates were not bound to these pledges. A detailed count of the results by Congressional District could not be found either; of those delegates elected At-Large as last reported, nine favored Humphrey, five were uncommitted, two favored Kennedy, one favored Johnson.
^
abIt is mentioned that a coalition of Kennedy and McCarthy Delegates won, but their apportionment is not mentioned.
^The source listed it as three hundred, possibly a typo. Four hundred seem to match up with the percentages.
^Headed by former State Senator Scott Kelly of Lakeland, the Slate was considered favorable to supporting either Kennedy's or Wallace's nomination.
^Includes 3,082 write-in votes for Ronald Reagan, 2,974 write-in votes for Richard Nixon, and 2,841 write-in votes for Nelson Rockefeller.
^Originally the delegation was to be pledged to Governor Warren Hearnes as a Favorite-Son, but he withdrew his name from consideration. Though uncommitted, a poll made of the delegation indicated that fifty-seven were in favor Humphrey's nomination, three in favor of McCarthy's.
^The delegation as a whole was uncommitted, and the claims as to which delegates favored which candidates varied wildly; it is generally held that Humphrey held was favored by most, but Kennedy had a decent shot at winning the favor of the majority as well, depending on the outcome of the California primary.
^An uncommitted slate headed by California Attorney General Thomas Lynch was also on the ballot; originally a stalking horse for President Johnson, it was generally understood after Johnson had dropped out that the slate was in favor of Vice President Humphrey.
^
abThe Presidential Primary in New Jersey had no influence over the delegates being selected; a separate primary was being held for thirty of the delegates to the National Convention, with McCarthy supporters winning twenty spots. The other ten, as well as fifty others on which basis their election is not immediately clear, were lead by Governor Richard Hughes.
^While the former Johnson Slate made every effort they could to make it clear that they intended to support Hubert Humphrey for the nomination, there remained a considerable amount of confusion among South Dakota voters over whether they were voting for President Johnson or Vice President Humphrey; the contest was expected to be close as compared to the twenty point margin of victory Kennedy experienced.
^The North Carolina delegation was pledged to back Governor Dan Moore as their Favorite-Son, but upon being freed of their pledge by Moore the overwhelming majority were expected to back Hubert Humphrey for the nomination.
^
abThe Presidential Primary in Illinois had no influence over the delegates being selected; a separate primary was being held for forty-eight of the delegates to the National Convention. McCarthy struggled to establish an effective campaign here, and only managed to name twenty-three candidates out of forty-eight, in fourteen out of the twenty-four Congressional Districts being competed in. Competing against the political machine lead by Chicago Mayor Richard Daley with its superior organization, few if any of the McCarthy delegates were expected to win. Daley himself headed what was to be an uncommitted delegation to the Convention, but it was presumed that he favored Humphrey's nomination.
^While technically uncommitted, all the delegates selected supported Humphrey for the nomination; the argument made against a direct pledge to Humphrey was that it would enable to delegation to have more bargaining power at the Convention.
^There was no Presidential Primary in New York, only one for delegates to the National Convention, with three elected to represent each of the forty-one Congressional Districts. The tabulation of the vote is incomplete, uncontested districts not being mentioned by the source.
^The thirty delegates elected were candidates who had filed before Kennedy's assassination, and were now running on the themes and principles of the late Kennedy's Campaign; technically they should be considered uncommitted, but they were competing against officially uncommitted candidates as well.
^There had been an expectation that McCarthy would be awarded some delegates, but the McCarthyite delegates to the State Convention bolted when the Regulars lead by John Moran Bailey refused to allot the delegates based on the ratio of Convention delegates elected; Bailey offered to award McCarthy five to nine delegates, whereas the McCarthyites demanded a minimum of ten. Following the walkout all forty-four delegates were elected as uncommitted under Bailey's direction, generally seen as a result that strongly benefited Humphrey's campaign.
^
abMost of Minnesota's delegates had already been awarded through District Conventions that had been held earlier in the year, with Humphrey carrying three Districts and McCarthy carrying two. The McCarthyites had expected that the At-Large delegates would be apportioned three to two in the same manner, but those in favor of Humphrey considered it a necessity that the State delegation be as solidly behind the Vice President as possible so as to not prove an embarassment at the National Convention.
^The At-Large delegates were allotted by the State Democratic Committee, and besides those considered McCarthy delegates by the Committee itself it is unknown how many are uncommitted against how many are formally in favor of Humphrey. It must be stated as well that some of the McCarthy delegates themselves were considered suspect, many having little to no connection with the McCarthy campaign.
^Originally a delegated filed to support Kennedy's campaign, they are formally uncommitted.
@
Ariostos: Very excellent work here; I have begun doing the same separately to help complete this article and bring it up to standards. I will begin integrating this work into the article; unfortunate that nobody has built on it in the prior two years. Would be happy to work with you on this if you are still actively interested. I'm pleased to say I have a Newspapers.com subscription which would allow us to move past the NY Times, but it doesn't resolve the main problem which prevents me from just copy-pasting your sources in (besides the confusion you noted in how to deal with delegate projections versus final vote, which is universal to these articles): in many cases, the newspapers report partial or inaccurate totals which are later clarified. So, while newspapers are a great resource for us, official certified results are preferable where possible.
-A-M-B-1996- (
talk)
19:13, 21 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Infobox
@
-A-M-B-1996- Your restoration is nonsensical ("favorite sons" who received votes and delegates and appeared on ballots are not included, but Humphrey, who FAMOUSLY sat-out the primary is represented in the infobox for the results of the primary?)
It also misrepresents history. If someone went off of your representation, they'd be bewildered as to why it was seen as undemocratic that Humphrey was selected as the nominee at the convention. After all, you are misrepresenting him as having won his delegates through the primaries rather than being voted for by the delegates that were not awarded through primary process (which is actually what happened). Please revert and discuss further here.
SecretName101 (
talk)
18:32, 21 April 2023 (UTC)reply
@
-A-M-B-1996- If you are unwilling to discuss changes, you cannot expect them to remain against argued objections, now can you? It's been more than two weeks, and you have been active on this article, yet failed to defend your infobox preference.
SecretName101 (
talk)
02:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)reply
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