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This is great stuff so far. PKM 05:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
I added an introductory paragraph as per Wikipedia Manual of Style and for consistency with the rest of the series. It's a bit long; we might split it into a first sentence and "General Trends" section in the future. Hope you like the image I included with it. - PKM 18:58, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Somehow there's a sad lack of mention of the fontange... ;-) Churchh 13:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I have moved and resized the images, and added captions as best I can - please flesh these out, as I am not sure about petticoat breeches and rhinegraves!!
I also made a few general grammatical tweaks and added bunch of links.
We need a picture of a Steinkerk. I will go looking. - PKM 18:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1690/conty_1694.jpg
Compare him to a 1680 gentleman:
http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1680/man_1698.jpg
1680s: vertical pockets, large bow of ribbons under cravat...1690s steinkerk and no bow, horizontal pockets, a bit higher wig...
I started it. It still needs more info on the lamentable fontange. And more stuff in general. - PKM 23:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This article was recategorized in 2006 in accordance with a scheme for organizing articles in
Category:History of clothing. That effort has been superseded by
WikiProject Fashion. |
This 1807 caricature claims to be comparing contemporary styles to those of 1740, but wouldn't you agree that the alleged 1740 outfit actually looks more 17th-century? Churchh 19:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone find a firm date for Image:Eleonore of Pfalz Neuburg.jpg? DShe became empress in 1676 and this certainly looks like 1670s, but I cannot find a museum citation for it. - PKM 01:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
User:Azalea pomp deleted Image:Medinacelli.jpg with this comment: "→Style gallery 1670s-1690s - Not sure that is 1684, probably 1678 since the description of the photo said he was 24 and he was born in 1654...so I shall remove it until we can get a consensus".
Google search results gives 1659 as his date of birth "[PDF] Bulletin of Spanish Studies DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE LIVING AND THE ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat (t) Cogolludo: Don Luis Francisco de la Cerda, Marquis of Cogolludo and ninth Duke. of Medinaceli after his father's death; he was born in 1659 and married ..." That birthdate would have him turn 25 some time in 1684 and supports the date in the Burlingon Magazine.
Any objection to putting the image back? The article specifically dates the portait to 1684, and I used "c. 1684" in the caption. In any case, I'd like to restore the image even if we give a date range of "c. 1678-84" - PKM 20:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I have the reference for the mantua citation that was requested at home - I will add it. -
PKM 19:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Added. -
PKM
03:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
The sentence:
Seems to be to be OR (or sourced from a fashion article that is trying to make a generalisation that for a whole continent but the devil is in the detail). The Thirty Years War ended in the 1640s. Britain was under a military dictatorship for much of the 1650s and was nearly continuously at war throughout the period (Among other things this dictatorship banned theatre and Christmas -- "peaceful and more relaxed feeling[s]" is not how most contemporaries would have described the decade. So while Germany and parts of Scandinavia were now at peace that was not Europe wide. The Dutch, Spanish French and [British] Commonwealth were at war for much of the period:
So this bland generalisation needs to be removed-- PBS ( talk) 11:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I noticed there seems to be two established styles of dress for gentlemen (I especially note France) in the early 1660s (maybe even in the late 1650s?). The first style includes petticoat breeches and a very short doublet. The second style includes a long coat with short sleeves and rhinegraves. I am defining petticoat breeches as non-collected while rhinegraves as collected. If there is an overskirt, the rhinegraves are white. If there is no overksirt, the rhinesgraves match the coat. Two are from paintings faithfully based on I assume are older tapestries. Painter Jacques Laumosnier apparently copied these two tapestries decades later. First, the tapestry/painting of Meeting on the Isle of Pheasants shows a gentleman second from our left, wearing a long blue coat with short sleeves and white rhinegraves. Over these white rhinegraves is apparently an overskirt. This overskirt has loops of ribbons that go all around the bottom of the skirt. This is in contrast to petticot breeches where the ribbon loops are only worn on each of the outer sides at the bottom. These same white rhinegraves are worn by King Charles II of England’s coronation portrait by John Michael Wright. Contrast King Louis XIV’s small amount of ribbon loops versus the aformentioned man in the blue coat. The potrait of Maximilian Philipp Hieronymus von Bayern-Leuchtenberg in the German translation of this article has a good example of the overksirt fashion. Second, the tapestry/painting Marriage of Louis XIV to Maria Theresa of Austria shows a gentleman at our far left wearing an elaborate long coat with short sleeves. He has white gathered rhingraves with an apparent overskirt due to the wide circumferance of ribbon loops. The painting can be found at the French wikipedia article for Jacques Laumosnier. Third, an engraving of King Louis XIV visiting the Royal Academy of Sciences. The engraving can be found at the article: French Academy of Sciences as the third image. The two gentlemen in the center wear the two styles. King Louis XIV on our left wears a long coat (maybe a short waistcoat, vest or doublet on under the long coat?), overskirt and rhinegraves. The gentleman on our right as a short doublet and petticoat breeches. Fourth, the 1663 painting of The Reception of the Ambassadors of the Thirteen Swiss Cantons from 1663 has a gentleman on our far right in a brown long coat with shortsleeves and matching rhinegraves. There is no overskirt nor ribbons on the bottom of his breeches. Fifth, I have seen a painting of a seated Louis XIV in wide white rhinegraves with a long coat and an apparent overskirt. The painting was said to be from 1665. Does anyone know the origins or any context why the two different styles were worn? ElkandAcquerne ( talk) 15:58, 4 October 2021 (UTC)